I am confused

[Gnzrme]

So I am reviewing my targets from SCPRC and it looks like I rocked the far distances and fell apart up close.. On my 500 yard targets, I scored a 98/100 5x. This was in the morning when it's was blowing in excess of 20mh... Look at my target all on the same line with 2 flyers on the ends of the target.

Now look at my 100 yard targets... Shots all over the place... If I am making mistakes, wouldn't they be amplified more at greater distances?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1352689556.213878.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1352689674.275536.jpg

I hit my cold bore the 1st day. 3"/300 but couldn't get it on the 2nd. 8"/500 (VERY WINDY TODAY).

I mainly only do dot drills at 100 and do like 7 out of 10.

I just missed the hot bore on day 2 by a hair.. Off hand 235 yards


Suggestions?

[gau17]

Shots all landed on left side. Maybe your windage was off.

[Gnzrme]

Nope, I didn't touch my windage knob at all. I am assuming that it's position or trigger pull. But that's where I get confused... If I have this issue at 100, then how come I can hit a target at a long distance.

[buffybuster]

You're in a rush and your ganking your shots....


Damn, I forgot to pickup my targets.

[Gnzrme]

I think that's it. Maybe instead of Vicodin, I should take Xanax... JK

[AR15barrels]

Were you staying on top of checking actual parallax or were you relying on the image being in it's best focus to also be parallax free?

The reason I ask is that parallax and focus seem to spread apart at shorter ranges and come together really well at longer distances.

[Teletiger7]

I think it was the adrenaline of the speed dot drills and the anxiety of the clock that made you rush your shots. I speak from personal experience( )

[buffybuster]

Were you staying on top of checking actual parallax or were you relying on the image being in it's best focus to also be parallax free?

The reason I ask is that parallax and focus seem to spread apart at shorter ranges and come together really well at longer distances.

Between the 12 lenses in Steven's NF scope and the glasses he wears and the ones in his eye, we'll never know where the parallax is.......

[Gnzrme]

Between the 12 lenses in Steven's NF scope and the glasses he wears and the ones in his eye, we'll never know where the parallax is.......

You might have a point there Henry....

Does magnification affect parallax? I can focus on an object just by adjusting it... When I get on the gun, I bob my head up and down to see if it's correct.. I will have to check that...

[Gnzrme]

I think it was the adrenaline of the speed dot drills and the anxiety of the clock that made you rush your shots. I speak from personal experience( )

Joe, That is my biggest problem, so that is why I am trying to shoot more matches... To get more clock time...

When I am by myself at the range, it doesn't seem to be the same

[autoessentials]

Maybe you were hooking the trigger or positioned at an angle to your rifle on those rounds?

[gau17]

I'm on parallax or windage knob. Your sighter was also high right and you had plenty of time to get the round off. Don't you shoot low left if you're mashing the trigger (right handed)?

[Gnzrme]

Maybe you were hooking the trigger or positioned at an angle to your rifle on those rounds?

I know I kept looking for a cuddle buddy, but hooking is something I usually do not do.

Hey, but I couldn't tell if my rifle was on or off the barricade, so you never know...

[264Charlie]

Steven, Come shoot with me and we can work on it. I have a few ideas.


Sent from my iPhone.

[AR15barrels]

Does magnification affect parallax?

Absolutely.
The greater the magnification, the greater the potential for parallax error.
If you are parallax free at one magnification and then you adjust the magnification, there is a good chance of the parallax going out of adjustment.

[snappy]

It looks like you made no adjustments after your sighter round on the 100 yard target.
the bullet didn't lie.

[khw9mm]

Get a timer Steven! I found it helpful for when I practice at the range with shot/time management.

For speed dot stages, I KNOW I'm not gonna be the fastest out there so I just concentrate on making good shots.

[postal]

Yeah magnification affects parallax/focus bigtime.

At closer distances dialing down the power helps the focus/parallax.

Look at a close target (25-50 yds) at your lowest power, and start bringing in the mag. It doesnt take long to get fuzzy.

[johnlee]

You're not using the Force.

[264Charlie]

Steven what did you due different? Think long about the answer? Did you hold more wind than you thought you should at distance? Did you fire your shots at the bottom of you breath every time? Rushed vs. relaxed? What was your mental state during the stages? That's the distance of the two targets and the the total vertical?

[Gnzrme]

There is about 1-2 inches vertical in the 500 yard target wind was blowing about 20-30 but flags were going different directions so maybe it was evened out? Solomon was calling my wind and I just concentrated in shooting... But I tried to do the same thing at 100. I saw my sighter, made my correction and shot the drill. 1st shot was high so I held under the next shot... Still low held under more and got the next 2. But why didn't my dialed correction move my bullet? Also was shooting left. Parallax? I seem to have more difficulty the closer the target is. I wonder if Henry is correct in saying that due to my poor eyesight, I might not be able to determine the correct parallax at close distances where it matters most

[buffybuster]

Steven,

Do you have corrective glasses SPECIFICALLY ground for shooting? Due to the position of the head in relation to the stock, you end up looking through the top corner of the lenses. Lenses are fitted to the frames with the proper focal area being in the normal FOV. Looking through your lenses outside of the focal area you have greater distortion and refractive error. You should have your optomologist fit glasses specifically with the focal area located where you look when your head is mounted on the stock (typically the frames sit much higher on the face).

If you're trying to remove corrective glasses related distortion by adjusting the scope parallax, you might unwittingly be dialing parallax into the optic. Which would result in the perception the crosshairs are somewhere they are not. At long range, parallax becomes less critical, so that may explain why you shoot better at the longer distances.

Just a thought.

[gau17]

I think Henry has a point.

[Gnzrme]

no I do not have those types of glasses... I will look into that..

[Stoopy]

Would contacts work for this with just regular shooting glasses, or would that just add another lens and make it worse?

[gau17]

Could you remove your glasses and adjust the ocular focus?

[Gnzrme]

I was wearing contacts during the match. I cannot focus without my glasses, so that is not an option

[264Charlie]

Parallax has nothing to do with focus. You should be adjusting the parallax based on "movement" not focus. I know my NF & S&B both were not in focus when parallax free. Bushnell is until about 900 yards then it's off a bit too. My USO was money.

I don't think you have a parallax issue... I will watch you shoot this weekend and see what I see.

[buffybuster]

Parallax has nothing to do with focus. You should be adjusting the parallax based on "movement" not focus. I know my NF & S&B both were not in focus when parallax free. Bushnell is until about 900 yards then it's off a bit too. My USO was money.

I don't think you have a parallax issue... I will watch you shoot this weekend and see what I see.

The bolded portion not correct.

Parallax in an optical gunsight is caused by the reticle and the target image not being on the same plane. Adjusting the focus of the target image to coincide with the reticle plane will remove the parallax.

[6079Winston]

I would go with Charlie on nulling apparent motion between the reticle and target. I don't think it is possible to go with focus alone since the eye is constantly changing it's focus to make the image more appealing to the brain which often sees things that don't exist and even assembles composite images with an astonishing depth of field by using the eye to scan the world around us. Probably on the lookout for food, tail or predators. Lock the focus of the eye at infinity and turn off the brain and you're GTG either way.

[264Charlie]

The bolded portion not correct.

Parallax in an optical gunsight is caused by the reticle and the target image not being on the same plane. Adjusting the focus of the target image to coincide with the reticle plane will remove the parallax.

If you say so....

[Teletiger7]

Parallax:



http://www.6mmbr.com/parallax.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rksimple]

The bolded portion not correct.

Parallax in an optical gunsight is caused by the reticle and the target image not being on the same plane. Adjusting the focus of the target image to coincide with the reticle plane will remove the parallax.

I've had MULTIPLE Nightforces and S&B's that were parallax free but the target was not in focus. I could adjust the parallax knob to make the target in focus, but it was not parallax free. I had a S&B that would not get parallax free at ALL past about 400 yards, yet the target would be in focus. Parallax free and in focus do not always coincide.

[buffybuster]

I've had MULTIPLE Nightforces and S&B's that were parallax free but the target was not in focus. I could adjust the parallax knob to make the target in focus, but it was not parallax free. I had a S&B that would not get parallax free at ALL past about 400 yards, yet the target would be in focus. Parallax free and in focus do not always coincide.

This is what I'm talking about; What is in focus to "your" eye may not actually be in focus for parallax correction.

Technically when the optical image focal length is in coincidence with the reticle plane; that by definition means the image is parallax free. If, at that point, the image is not clear to "your" eye then either you may need vision correction or there may be some lenses aberration or alignment issue (canted rail put the optics off centerline to your eye, meaning you're looking through the optics at a very slight angle, changing their refraction.)

[rksimple]

This is what I'm talking about; What is in focus to "your" eye may not actually be in focus for parallax correction.

Technically when the optical image focal length is in coincidence with the reticle plane; that by definition means the image is parallax free. If, at that point, the image is not clear to "your" eye then either you may need vision correction or there may be some lenses aberration or alignment issue (canted rail put the optics off centerline to your eye, meaning you're looking through the optics at a very slight angle, changing their refraction.)

Having more than 5 high end optics fall into this category, it's not my eye that's the problem. This is an issue witnessed by many shooters of high end optics. Even some old timers. Took a train up from Vern Harrison in WV prior to a big match. He's a record holder FWIW. He's experienced the exact same thing with Leupolds especially. Just because the book says something is true doesn't mean it is true in the real world.

[Gnzrme]

So them what does he do Ryan? He must be forced to shoot the target out of focus?

[rksimple]

So them what does he do Ryan? He must be forced to shoot the target out of focus?

I won plenty of matches with old SFP NFs slightly out of focus, yet parallax free. There's a difference. It's not as big a deal as you'd be lead to believe.

[264Charlie]

Yes Steven you shoot with the target out of focus. Parallax free is when the target and the reticle are in the same focal plane. This does not mean the target will be in focus.

[buffybuster]

Having more than 5 high end optics fall into this category, it's not my eye that's the problem. This is an issue witnessed by many shooters of high end optics. Even some old timers. Took a train up from Vern Harrison in WV prior to a big match. He's a record holder FWIW. He's experienced the exact same thing with Leupolds especially. Just because the book says something is true doesn't mean it is true in the real world.

I'm not telling you what the "book" says, I'm telling you what it is. If the scope still appears to have parallax when it is focused, then there is another issue with those optics. Every optic is an compromise, no matter what the cost or how "high-end"; then when you put them on a canted rail, there is even more of an optical compromise.

I am stating a FACT: When the optical image is in the same plane (coplanar) with the reticle, then it is parallax free. By definition, optical parallax is induced when the reticle and image are on two difference focal planes resulting in the difference of the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this and I'm not saying your observations are incorrect. I have absolute trust of what you observed is true. However, I don't want anyone reading this to come to some misguide conclusion about what parallax is and what it isn't. Due to these optical compromises and manufacturing tolerances (however miniscule), and we cannot physically determine when the image and reticle are coplanar, the best we can do is determine it visually, which is inexact.

[264Charlie]

So in the "real" world your scope if parallax free with the target does not move with head position. Not when it is in focus with the target. Regardless of the whys THIS IS FACT.

[rksimple]

So what you're telling me Henry is that, in fact, all optics suck? Lol.

[rksimple]

I only trust a quarter of what I hear and half of what I see. Despite the optical definitions proving optical physics, I'll trust my own peepers. My peepers don't lie.

[Thevic]

great, tomorrow I'm going to be spending an hour checking my parallax and focus at different ranges.

[264Charlie]

great, tomorrow I'm going to be spending an hour checking my parallax and focus at different ranges.

It will be worth your time. Mark your knob and it will help your shooting.

[buffybuster]

I only trust a quarter of what I hear and half of what I see. Despite the optical definitions proving optical physics, I'll trust my own peepers. My peepers don't lie.

Oh, but indeed they do....... you brain just compensates for it without you consciously being aware of it.

[6079Winston]

great, tomorrow I'm going to be spending an hour checking my parallax and focus at different ranges.

If you want to really mess with your head try out some red on blue or blue on red targets, I remember those looking really weird once. Made a note of it in case I ever had to shoot a clown.

[buffybuster]

My advice to minimize the effect of parallax is to concentrate on putting your head position (and therefore eye position) in the same place everytime you get behind the optic. By limiting to a single line of sight, whatever parallax exists in the optic will remain in a constant position in relation to your eye, reticle and image.

[DirtRacer151]

My balls itch.

[buffybuster]

Yes Steven you shoot with the target out of focus. Parallax free is when the target and the reticle are in the same focal plane. This does not mean the target will be in focus.

Agreed!

[Stoopy]

My balls itch.

Pinch and roll