New Shooters Read This Please!!!!!

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:41 pm

Okay here we go. I want to find out from all of you that haven't made it out to shoot a match yet why you have not. Is it the intimidation factor? Feel that you don't have the right gear? Need more instruction? Voice your opinions here please. I want to address anything that i can and get more of you guys out there shooting. I would be willing to meet up at the range and help out with anything that you need. Answer any questions about gear or time or whatever. But i can not help with anything if i don't know what to do. Thats where you all come in. There will be absolutely no such thing as a stupid question that can be asked here. No matter how small i want to help out.

Thanks in advance for your input

Tripeaks69 · Post by **Tripeaks69** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:31 am

wow... thanks for helping us out to make it to shoot a match.

My biggest problem is my work schedule. I am currently on per diem, and taking on call on week ends and holidays. Hopefully, I will be able to get a better schedule soon, when that day comes, you can expect me to shoot almost every week end hehehehe..

Second, I will be honest, I am also intimidated but I know I can overcome it with practice. probably if someone going out on regular day, I like to meet up and practice. So some of you can correct or coach me.

Thanks.

Art

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:30 am

I can understand the intimidation factor a little bit but our monthly matches are not as crazy as some of the bigger matches that are shot. Let us know when you are heading out to the range and I would be more than happy to come out and help with anything that I can. As far as work goes I can't help you get out of that

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:17 am

I know for me it was the word "Match". Maybe you can have a weekend for new people and call it a "Practice" or "Intro". I bet you will get people to come out.

I would be willing to help.

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:41 am

I know I'm not the best shot around here but I am willing to help out people who want to shoot the matches. I usually practice a couple paper stages when I go to the range. I have a stack of them in my gun case. I usually go out on the weekdays so we can put paper out to 300 yards. I'm also profecient with the unsupported positions if you guys need help. Just pm me a week before and I can usually make it out. Only days I can't make it are mondays and thursdays.

Post by **Mobius38** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:12 am

Planning on attending my first in March. My big issue is gathering dope. Hell I ahve lots of "soft" dope just would like to get some hard dope sometime.

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:26 am

Dope is a good thing to have. But you can get really close with soft dope and in a pinch use it for matches. If you need help with collecting anything or have any questions man let us know. I'm sure we can help you out. Look forward to seeing you at the shoot that we do in march

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:14 pm

Up to the top. Come on guys lets get some more people to respond to this. Please and thank you

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:26 pm

Question to those who are intimidated about shooting a match or getting involved: Would a mentoring program help? If we could pair you up with an experienced shooter for your first match or even an unofficial practice day at ASR, would that be helpfull? Someone to look over your gear, loan you gear, explain whats going on and whats expected, etc. If that would help and get you out there, please let us know. Also, we are holding 5 Tactical Rimfire matches this year. Basically the same as our normal matches, but set to be low key, fun, and not require $$$ in equiptment. Perfect to get your feel wet in match shooting. Throw a bipod on your scoped 10/22 and buy a few boxes of Wolf Match Target ammo and your ready to go.

ADAM · Post by **ADAM** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:01 am

I love to go to matches,but I need to attend few clinics so I can get some basic fundamentals

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:33 am

Dont wait for the clinics. I shot my first match without going to one. I will be at Angeles this Saturday if you want me to give you some things to work on. Pm me for my number if you're interested

Radiation Shooter · Post by **Radiation Shooter** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:23 am

Havn't been out to shoot a match yet, but should be ready to shoot the March match. Waiting on a backordered Vortex Viper. Need rings/mount,(Nathans working on it) stock inletted,shooting mat, sling and a second job.
Anyone in the Santa Clarita Valley able to help with the inletting. Was planning on having Randall do it but I heard he's out of town?

Short Action Precision · Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 am

Radiation Shooter wrote:Havn't been out to shoot a match yet, but should be ready to shoot the March match. Waiting on a backordered Vortex Viper. Need rings/mount,(Nathans working on it) stock inletted,shooting mat, sling and a second job.
Anyone in the Santa Clarita Valley able to help with the inletting. Was planning on having Randall do it but I heard he's out of town?

What am I working on? Don't worry about the shooting mat you more then likely will be using some one else's. And if you dont have a sling Im sure some one would be able to let you borrow one. Its not a deal breaker when it comes to the match.

ADAM · Post by **ADAM** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:00 pm

I am also waiting for scope base from Nathan and bottom metal from sharp shooters

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Radiation Shooter wrote:Anyone in the Santa Clarita Valley able to help with the inletting.
Was planning on having Randall do it but I heard he's out of town?

I'm only out of town every other weekend.
I'm heading down to Mexico Friday morning and get back Sunday evening.
Next week I am around.

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:56 pm

And I have a sling and a mat you can use. Boom no more excuses Hahahaha

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:06 pm

Defiantly don't wait for a clinic before you shoot. Post up and ask for a mentor someone will help you. If you are missing something we will get it for you. If you have questions we will answer them for you.

As for hard DOPE. I never have hard dope for anything anymore. Use the Litz numbers and a crono and you will be close. Once you can shoot out to 600+. Adjust your speed until the DOPE matches (it will be close if you used a crono first). Now you will know your G7BC and speed this combo with correct DA will get you out to 1000 within a tenth or two.

Post by **Mobius38** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Thanks Charlie! Your always a TON of help! Hope to see you guys at the March match! I will do my best to be there!

264Charlie wrote:Defiantly don't wait for a clinic before you shoot. Post up and ask for a mentor someone will help you. If you are missing something we will get it for you. If you have questions we will answer them for you.

As for hard DOPE. I never have hard dope for anything anymore. Use the Litz numbers and a crono and you will be close. Once you can shoot out to 600+. Adjust your speed until the DOPE matches (it will be close if you used a crono first). Now you will know your G7BC and speed this combo with correct DA will get you out to 1000 within a tenth or two.

Radiation Shooter · Post by **Radiation Shooter** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:23 am

Radiation Shooter wrote:Havn't been out to shoot a match yet, but should be ready to shoot the March match. Waiting on a backordered Vortex Viper. Need rings/mount,(Nathans working on it) stock inletted,shooting mat, sling and a second job.
Anyone in the Santa Clarita Valley able to help with the inletting. Was planning on having Randall do it but I heard he's out of town?

I hate it when this happens. Someone should jump on this.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=523724

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:55 am

That guy is a member of this forum and has the same gun for sale in our forum's for sale section.

luvtolean · Post by **luvtolean** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:58 pm

It feels odd piping in to a new shooter thread when I've been shooting over 30 years now, but I am new to this game.

I think something the NCPPRC does that is really helpful for new shooters is the Sat/Sun format. I understand due to ranges and such, it's probably easier for them, but going to a couple of Sat "practices" is the equivalent of a trackday for a motorcycle rather than a roadrace your first time on track, it makes you much more comfortable.

I was lucky G-Force is a buddy and he actually took me out to the range there and gave me some basic tips for my first time out, and I ended up shooting a match with NCPPRC before a practice, but man did it feel like it moved fast. Hey, someone has got to come in last, I'm not afraid to lose if I can learn something.

But still, maybe something to consider.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:25 pm

You're right, NCPPRC has a sweet range setup. If showing up on a saturday and hanging a paper target for each shooter on a range all to yourself is all we had to do, it would not be an issue. That just does not exist down here. One thing to note for new shooters, the saturday before most matches, usually people from the club are at ASR shooting, practicing, zeroing, getting dope. Come on out and we can get you situated and show you whats up. Also keep an eye on the "community chapters" forum, LA area, people are often at ASR on non match days.

Dirtykoala · Post by **Dirtykoala** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:46 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:Your right, NCPPRC has a sweet range setup. If showing up on a saturday and hanging a paper target for each shooter on a range all to yourself is all we had to do, it would not be an issue. That just does not exist down here. One thing to note for new shooters, the saturday before most matches, usually people from the club are at ASR shooting, practicing, zeroing, getting dope. Come on out and we can get you situated and show you whats up. Also keep an eye on the "community chapters" forum, LA area, people are often at ASR on non match days.

You're*

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:51 pm

Keep it handy, you'll probably need it again.

Dirtykoala wrote:
You're*

Dirtykoala · Post by **Dirtykoala** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:57 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:Keep it handy, you'll probably need it again.

Looks like you need it

para38super · Post by **para38super** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:25 am

I have not been able to get to a match for several reasons, I still need some gear(Rear bag, and sling). I need to chrono my ammo (Federal 168gr match) out of my Rifle (Remington 700 sps tactical) to get hard DOPE.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:53 am

Para38.

Someone will lone you are bag and sling at the match or shoot without them.
You don't need to chrono anything. Most Chronos are a wast of time anyway
You will not need hard dope at ASR. We can get you accurate Dope in about five shots.

Dope process for ASR.

Zero rifle at 100 on 1/2" dot.
Shoot a small rock or mark on the berm with a spotter at 600. Shoot at it until elevation is exact.
enter in a ballistics calc the G7 litz number for your bullet.
Adjust speed until your 600 DOPE matches.

Your done. Shoot matches.

para38super · Post by **para38super** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:39 pm

264Charlie wrote:Para38.

Someone will lone you are bag and sling at the match or shoot without them.
You don't need to chrono anything. Most Chronos are a wast of time anyway
You will not need hard dope at ASR. We can get you accurate Dope in about five shots.

Dope process for ASR.

Zero rifle at 100 on 1/2" dot.
Shoot a small rock or mark on the berm with a spotter at 600. Shoot at it until elevation is exact.
enter in a ballistics calc the G7 litz number for your bullet.
Adjust speed until your 600 DOPE matches.

Your done. Shoot matches.

Very interesting way of getting accurate dope, but sounds very logic. Zeroing on a 1/2" dot, I don't think I can hit something that small. I always shoot at a 1 1/2" dot.

I am going to need someone to spot me to be able to get accurate DOPE.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:54 pm

It works well, I never have hard DOPE fore anything.

If you need a spotter depends on you and your rifle. I don't because I can see my impacts form 100 yards on. Some people can't see hits at 600.

Stop shooting at 1.5" dots. Aim small miss small. If you or your rifle can't hit a .5" dot you need a new rifle, load or more practice.

Khsiebert · Post by **Khsiebert** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:27 pm

The effort to assure new shooters that they can come out and shoot a match without risk of ridicule is commendable, but is undermined by pointless criticisms about expectations of self expression, and the notion that a competitor must shoot 1/2 moa. While a rifle capable of shooting 1 moa is necessary equipment, few riflemen shoot that well under match conditions.... and for those that do .... we all aspire to develop such skills under the tutelage of the more learned, experienced and talented. Stay the course Chevroletkid88

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:43 pm

Khsiebert wrote:The effort to assure new shooters that they can come out and shoot a match without risk of ridicule is commendable, but is undermined by pointless criticisms about expectations of self expression, and the notion that a competitor must shoot 1/2 moa. While a rifle capable of shooting 1 moa is necessary equipment, few riflemen shoot that well under match conditions.... and for those that do .... we all aspire to develop such skills under the tutelage of the more learned, experienced and talented. Stay the course Chevroletkid88

Sir, you misunderstand. I said hit a 1/2 dot, that's close to a 1 MOA rifle. Shooting inside a 1/2" dot would be a 1/2 MOA rifle.

My commits are not pointless criticism but fact. Take it or leave it but I shoot matches every month. I'm personally willing to help anyone that wants to lear and come shoot. Regardless of will reasonable expectation must be set for shooters and their equipment.

If you aim small you miss small. Shooting at a 1.5" dot is not even worth the time or ammo with a precision rifle. Even a factory one. Most factory guns with match ammo will easily hit a .5" dot with a average shooter if he walks it in. How will anyone know what they can do if he does not try? If they can't hit a .5" dot showing up and shooting a match might offer him some guidance on what he is doing incorrectly.

This is not a land of participation awards. IF you you and to learn you must hold yourself to the same standards as the rest of the shooters. If you can't meet them suck up the constructive criticism and make improvements.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Khsiebert wrote:The effort to assure new shooters that they can come out and shoot a match without risk of ridicule is commendable, but is undermined by pointless criticisms

Absolutely.

Khsiebert wrote:the notion that a competitor must shoot 1/2 moa.

There is no notion that a shooter must shoot 1/2 moa to compete.

In order to HIT a 1/2" dot with a 308, the shooter only needs to shoot a bit over 3/4 moa.
You get to add the bullet diameter to the target size because an edge hit is still a hit.

It only takes 1 3/4 moa 308 rifle to stay on 1.5" dots.

Going to a 1/2" dot gives you a smaller aiming point in order to see where you are hitting more accurately.

Try this target out:
http://www.caprc.com/targets/10dot.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Khsiebert · Post by **Khsiebert** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Many shooters on the firing line are not there to compete ... they are easy to spot ... they are the shooters with average gear .... without high end .260's with S&B scopes.... no, they shoot stock Savage and Remington rifles. The purpose of participating in competition for these shooters is to challenge yourself. To better your skills. To enjoy your hobby. To banter with like minded individuals who share similar interests. These are the folks you are seeking to attract to the sport. If the bug bites them and they are willing to drop 10k and a custom stick and glass, then you have a competitor in the making. As for the rest of us, finishing in the top 10 is not the objective.

I do agree however, with the advise of "aim small, miss small" ... which I keep in mind every time I press the trigger. Likewise, dot drills are a useful skill building exercise .. but not the measure of a skilled marksman..

Charlie ... I meant no disrespect to you. My frustration is more with folks who elevate themselves by placing others beneath them....

To bring my comments back to being "on topic", the suggestion of a mentor program has potential. Honestly, many folks become involved because another took the time to make them feel welcome. A personalize approach to addressing a potential participant's needs will make them feel more secure in their ability (no one want to embarrass themselves), and it gives the mentor the opportunity to instill basic safety protocols for the good of the club and everyone on the firing line.

Good luck.

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:52 pm

I shoot with a factory Remington 700 sps v and I am using a borrowed scope and a loaner stock because my gear sucked so badly to begin with. Without the kindness of the other guys in this club there is no way that I would be able to shoot any kind of match right now. There is the thought that you need some crazy expensive gear to compete but that is not the case at all. I know people who have won our monthly matches with savages and gas guns. It's all about who was on there game the mos that day.

I know that Charlie did not mean to try and place anyone beneath him. He was just stating the facts of the game. If you are going to practice with a 1.5" target at 100 yards you might as well be throwing your rounds away. You will be wondering why you are missing targets all day long even though when you practice you can hit those big old targets no problem.

That being said when are you gunna come out and shoot with us? Half the reason that I do this is the fact I love helping out new shooters and meeting new freinds. Let any of us know when you will be heading out to the range and I'm sure we can try to meet up and have a fun day at the range

Post by **Gnzrme** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:48 pm

I shoot the matches to meet new people and I learn something every time. I just have to learn to apply it consistantly. I usually come in in the bottom 3rd and I just keep shooting even though I get spanked. I can shoot 1/2 dots, but not consistantly. That is the goal I am working towards.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:00 pm

My stock remington and Eddies stock Savage have both won matches this last year without S&B scopes in lowly .308. I also can't shoot a 3/4 moa group with my rifle either.

para38super · Post by **para38super** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:10 pm

I am going to download the target Randall suggested. I totally understand the "aim small, miss small". I know my rifle is capable of shooting under 1 MOA, I might need some practice to achieve that, but it can be done. I am going to order a sling and a rear bag and I will shoot my first match. I actually disagree with saying you need a 10k rifle to win a match, I am a believer that the shooter is much more important than the rifle. If I am only capable of shooting 2 MOA at 100 yards even if you hand me a 1/4 moa rifle I will still shoot 2 MOA.

Stoopy · Post by **Stoopy** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Is the dot drill target also used for rimfire? If so I have some work to do.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:38 pm

Yes, 1/2 dots at 50 yards is great.
http://www.caprc.com/targets/0.5dots.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stoopy wrote:Is the dot drill target also used for rimfire? If so I have some work to do.

Stoopy · Post by **Stoopy** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:52 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:Yes, 1/2 dots at 50 yards is great.
http://www.caprc.com/targets/0.5dots.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh good 50 yards sounds better than 100. 100 yards seems impossible with a .22.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:16 pm

para38super wrote:I am going to download the target Randall suggested. I totally understand the "aim small, miss small". I know my rifle is capable of shooting under 1 MOA, I might need some practice to achieve that, but it can be done. I am going to order a sling and a rear bag and I will shoot my first match. I actually disagree with saying you need a 10k rifle to win a match, I am a believer that the shooter is much more important than the rifle. If I am only capable of shooting 2 MOA at 100 yards even if you hand me a 1/4 moa rifle I will still shoot 2 MOA.

+1 - Seth can win a match with a factory rifle and fixed 10 power scope.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:19 pm

Para38super - hope to see you at the next match. The Guys here are awesome. They really go out of their way to make you feel right at home.

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:03 am

Hey guys, shooting 1 moa groups is a good start but it really is the tip of the iceberg. You can get small groups from lots of dry firing at home. It's the easiest thing to practice. Practice until your cross hairs don't move when your don't move or move very little. Spend your range time and precious ammo gathering dope then practice positions( these can also be practiced at home), speed drills, hold over transitions, and reading the wind. Once you have that stuff down you should be doing alright at the matches. I'm usually at Angeles once a week so hit me up if you want to practice.

Peter W Bush · Post by **Peter W Bush** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:25 pm

I've been shooting since I was 6 or 7 but mainly shotguns and handguns. I went to "Clinic A" and had a blast but couldn't make it to Clinic B. I haven't been to a match because 1. I am a little intimidated, 2. My schedule is shit, 3. I really don't know how to read wind yet, and 4. I suck at DOPE... Badly. I suppose once I shoot more, practice shooting in the wind more, etc. I'll have the confidence to make it to a match. But I guess for me it all boils down to confidence.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:35 pm

Peter W Bush wrote:I've been shooting since I was 6 or 7 but mainly shotguns and handguns. I went to "Clinic A" and had a blast but couldn't make it to Clinic B. I haven't been to a match because 1. I am a little intimidated, 2. My schedule is shit, 3. I really don't know how to read wind yet, and 4. I suck at DOPE... Badly. I suppose once I shoot more, practice shooting in the wind more, etc. I'll have the confidence to make it to a match. But I guess for me it all boils down to confidence.

The matches are held at Angeles Shooting range (600) yards for the most part you really dont have to worry about the wind. Just cowboy up and head out to a match. You wont regret it.

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:41 pm

I hear you man. It is kinda intimidating but if you make it out to your first match I will be willing to help you in any way possible. Let you use any of the gear that I have, help you with dope, any of the other things. Just make it out to the one in march. You will do fine don't worry about what you do not have. Just bring what you do. I can help with thE rest

Peter W Bush · Post by **Peter W Bush** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:09 pm

Chevroletkid88 wrote:I hear you man. It is kinda intimidating but if you make it out to your first match I will be willing to help you in any way possible. Let you use any of the gear that I have, help you with dope, any of the other things. Just make it out to the one in march. You will do fine don't worry about what you do not have. Just bring what you do. I can help with thE rest

Awesome! I really would love to. Few questions-

What time are the matches usually held?

The only scopes I own are a Nightforce 8-32 RR reticle, Pride Fowler 10x mil dot (no target knobs), and a Leupold 6.5-24 duplex reticle, also no target knobs. Can I use any of these or should I get a different scope?

Thanks for the offer. I would love to take you up on it.

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:21 pm

The matches are early in the morning on sundays. You usually want to be there at around 730 or so just so you have time to sign in and get all of your gear ready. One word of advice when you get the course of fire READ IT!! trust me this helps. As far as the scopes go you will want something with a reticle. You might just be best off with the 10x with the mildot even though it doesn't have target knobs just keep something close to make adjustments with. I would not rush out and make a rushed purchase on a new scope to shoot a match. Who knows you may not even like it. But the fact is you may just end up loving it. You never know. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me for my cell number and we can talk about it. If not just post them up here and im sure they will get answered

Short Action Precision · Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:25 pm

Well neither of those is Ideal but I would run the Nightforce. That way you can adjust your knobs quicker. Unless you know how to properly use your Mildots for hold overs.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:31 pm

One advice I can give for new shooters is try to be in the middle of the list. This way you can watch some people shoot before your turn. It helped me out on my first match.