CaPRC Marksmanship Clinic "B" 10-23-11

LUNCHBOX0621 · Post by **LUNCHBOX0621** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:03 am

Should we bring a data book out for this class?

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:09 am

It should be standard operating proceedure to bring a note pad or data book anytime you shoot to record change in zero and to record dope especially if it's a location you've never shot or in different atmospheric conditions. So short answer: yes.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:07 am

You will need something to write with and on. What is up to you.

dedub · Post by **dedub** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:18 pm

OK, so I'm using Ballistics FTE to create my ballistics card and I've got a few questions. I've got a Remington 700 SPS Varmint with 26" barrel in .308 and will be shooting Sierra Match King HPBT 168gr. So here are my questions:

1) Native Drag Model: Which one do I use?
2) Muzzle Velocity: The ammo box says 2,650fps, but I don't know for sure. Can anyone please confirm.
3) Use Drag Model: Again, which one do I use?
4) Scope Height: I measured from the center of the barrel to the top of the scope, then subtracted 1/2 of the scope's diameter. Is this correct?
5) Y-Intercept: What, if anything, do I put in here?
6) Zero Atmosphere: I zeroed at the A Clinic. What's the altitude at Angeles?
7) Spin & Stability: on or off?
8) Coriolis Acceleration: on or off?

Thanks in advance!

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:28 pm

dedub wrote:OK, so I'm using Ballistics FTE to create my ballistics card and I've got a few questions. I've got a Remington 700 SPS Varmint with 26" barrel in .308 and will be shooting Sierra Match King HPBT 168gr. So here are my questions:

1) Native Drag Model: Which one do I use?
G7
2) Muzzle Velocity: The ammo box says 2,650fps, but I don't know for sure. Can anyone please confirm.
Every gun is different, use 2650 and we will adjust it on sunday based on performance
3) Use Drag Model: Again, which one do I use?
G7 we have the Litz G7 BC in http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4) Scope Height: I measured from the center of the barrel to the top of the scope, then subtracted 1/2 of the scope's diameter. Is this correct?
Yes
5) Y-Intercept: What, if anything, do I put in here?
nothing
6) Zero Atmosphere: I zeroed at the A Clinic. What's the altitude at Angeles?
You need DA, altitude in by itself is useless, it does not really matter inside of 600 so but 1500
7) Spin & Stability: on or off?
Off
8) Coriolis Acceleration: on or off?
Off
Thanks in advance!

dedub · Post by **dedub** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:50 pm

264Charlie wrote:

Wow! Thanks so much. I'll buy you lunch on Sunday ;)

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:53 pm

dedub wrote:

Wow! Thanks so much. I'll buy you lunch on Sunday ;)

No problem, I will be going over most of this in the class too. You are not expected to know everything before you arrive.

ta2dtrent · Post by **ta2dtrent** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:17 pm

Ive been loading to the recomended OAL in the manual that Ive been using (lyman 49th). I recently purchased the RCBS precision mic for my 308.

My question is this...If I load .020 off the lands... How much is my Zero going to change ?

I already put the action in a new stock so I know my zero will be off from just that change.
The problem is that I dont have enough time to go re zero before the class.... Have to work tomorrow..Damnit

Should I use my old load or should I load .02 off the lands??????

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:08 pm

ta2dtrent wrote:Ive been loading to the recomended OAL in the manual that Ive been using (lyman 49th). I recently purchased the RCBS precision mic for my 308.

My question is this...If I load .020 off the lands... How much is my Zero going to change ?

I already put the action in a new stock so I know my zero will be off from just that change.
The problem is that I dont have enough time to go re zero before the class.... Have to work tomorrow..Damnit

Should I use my old load or should I load .02 off the lands??????

Not much.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:20 pm

You shooting a factory Remington? If so, the throat is probably so long, you many need to seat the bullets out so far it wont fit inthe magazine.

ta2dtrent wrote:Ive been loading to the recomended OAL in the manual that Ive been using (lyman 49th). I recently purchased the RCBS precision mic for my 308.

My question is this...If I load .020 off the lands... How much is my Zero going to change ?

I already put the action in a new stock so I know my zero will be off from just that change.
The problem is that I dont have enough time to go re zero before the class.... Have to work tomorrow..Damnit

Should I use my old load or should I load .02 off the lands??????

Post by **AR15barrels** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:51 pm

ta2dtrent wrote:I already put the action in a new stock so I know my zero will be off from just that change.
The problem is that I dont have enough time to go re zero before the class....

We check and correct zeros as part of the clinic.
It's hard to gather good dope if you don't have a good zero...

ta2dtrent · Post by **ta2dtrent** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:22 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
We check and correct zeros as part of the clinic.
It's hard to gather good dope if you don't have a good zero...

I just didn't want to be the one holding up the class because I dont have a good zero already.

rztmartini · Post by **rztmartini** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:37 pm

my scope focus stopped working, borrowed a friend's so i will be re-zero also. so you wont be the only one...

ta2dtrent · Post by **ta2dtrent** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:22 am

Backing out... Have to work tomorrow too.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:33 pm

ta2dtrent wrote:Backing out... Have to work tomorrow too.

rztmartini · Post by **rztmartini** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Hey I'm sorry its so late but I will not be able to attend the clinic. Sorry about that, hope that everyone enjoys it.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:41 pm

See everyone in the AM. I will be in a bright orange shirt so you can't miss me.

LUNCHBOX0621 · Post by **LUNCHBOX0621** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:27 am

Sorry all, car trouble

:arrow:

Tackman11 · Post by **Tackman11** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:57 pm

Had a great time today at the B clinic. Thanks Eddie, Steven, Nick and Thomas for helping me to dial in my BC. Need to work on my trigger pull

WhiteDingo · Post by **WhiteDingo** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:50 pm

Tackman11 wrote: Need to work on my trigger pull

You and me both, brother. Thanks for the spotting today; it's nice to have some real feedback.

A huge thanks to Nick and Charlie for the help on my position and trigger work, and to Steven and (gosh I feel like a dick, I can't remember your name!) the other gentleman for help on the dope and spotting!

Very much looking forward to the "C" Clinic!

PS. Huge props to Randall for cooking today!

RFC1212 · Post by **RFC1212** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:19 pm

Great B Clinic today. much thanks to the club for putting on another good one. thanks to Mike for all the help on the line and the ballistics/dope 101 explanations. and thanks for spotting and shooting feedback from Steven and Charlie, and I can't remember your name, but the instructor with the little pocket scope good for finding targets down the range? anyway, you know who you are! all you guys rock.

and another great lunch, thanks to Meghan and Randall for grilling and getting us fed.

can't wait till the C clinic.

thanks!

Randy

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:31 pm

Glad you guys (and gals) had fun we did too. You all shot very well and looked good behind the rifles. Hope to shoot a match with you soon.

BamBam-31 · Post by **BamBam-31** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:44 pm

Many thanks to the CAPRC crew for putting together yet another fun and informative clinic. Charlie, Steven, Nick, Eddie, you guys rock. Thanks for taking the time and for being so free with what you know. And special thanks to Randall for doing all the dirty work that made it all possible in the first place.

These clinics are invaluable for the one-on-one feedback you really can't get on your own. Definitely looking forward to C clinic so I, too, can one day say "F*** side prone!"

Post by **Gnzrme** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:01 pm

Guys... Totally had a good time. Made it worth missing work today. Everyone did excellent and got dope out to 600!! Then some of us turned our dials back too far and ended up a whole rev low (Like I have never done that before

) Anyway, everybody did well and there were no problems on the range.

Eddie... Thanks for coming back and securing the steel. Megan curse you for the doughnuts, but they were good....

Tackman11 · Post by **Tackman11** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:43 pm

Gnzrme wrote:Guys... Totally had a good time. Made it worth missing work today. Everyone did excellent and got dope out to 600!! Then some of us turned our dials back too far and ended up a whole rev low (Like I have never done that before ) Anyway, everybody did well and there were no problems on the range.

Eddie... Thanks for coming back and securing the steel. Megan curse you for the doughnuts, but they were good....

That would be me. And yes I marked my zero elevation. THX,

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:49 pm

Thanks Randall and Megan for the grub!

I think everybody knows what they need to work on now, much of which can be fixed with lots of dry firing. You have your dope now come out to a match and challenge yourself. Matches are just another kind of practice. You'd be amazed what you will learn and what you will walk away with. Randall, Charlie, Brad, Keith, and all the other veterans are great shooters and will share tips and give sound advice. Plus everybody is super friendly and fun to be around. Also the matches are a chance to check out other people's equipment and see what you like before you buy. Don't worry about dbm or muzzlebrakes. Just load (or buy) some match ammo, come out, and have fun

And if you still feel you are not ready to shoot a match then come out anyway to help out with the match by spotting and other stuff.

Tripeaks69 · Post by **Tripeaks69** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:45 pm

Thanks Randall and CAPRC Crews for running this clinic for us.. especially to Steven, Nick and Eddie for helping me dope at 400, 500 and 600 and Randall and Charles for helping me understand the MLR Reticles calibration @ 11 and 22 power.

Here are some photos taken by my GF during the clinic.

http://s378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... linic%20B/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Art "Tripeaks69" Ardiente

LUNCHBOX0621 · Post by **LUNCHBOX0621** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:10 am

Is it possible to buy the course material for those of us who couldn't make it

Post by **Mobius38** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:25 am

Thanks again for a great class. I learn more and more each time and I am gather a larger appreciation for what is accomplished at every event. Really looking forward t getting dialed in and shooting a few matches with you guys! Food was great and the instruction was AWESOME!!!! See ya all at the "C" clinic!

dedub · Post by **dedub** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:58 am

Just wanted to extend my thanks for another excellent clinic. It was great hitting steel pigs out at 600 yards. Looking forward to the "C" clinic.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:58 am

LUNCHBOX0621 wrote:Is it possible to buy the course material for those of us who couldn't make it

There is no written material or classroom session for clinic B, C or D.
It is all shooting and then short talks on the line.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:15 pm

Everyone shot very well, good job. Now that you have hard dope for those conditions, you can mess around with your ballistic computer programs and get some relatively accurate soft dope for other conditions. You also got to see how important the fundamentals are shooting at longer ranges and how much fun trying to dope the wind is.

Now, its time to get in some good practice. Everything you have learned other than recoil control can be practiced dry firing or with a .22lr If you have the opportunity, I would recommend looking into Appleseed training. It is very good (and cheap) training that can be done with a .22lr and focuses on shooting with a sling in the prone, sitting, and standing positions. Excellent "tools" to have in your tool bag of knowledge.

Upcoming Appleseed classes: http://appleseedinfo.org/search-states. ... California" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:43 pm

Also, for many of you it was the first time using mildots on your reticle. Remember, its just a ruler you use to measure things. Here are two pics of the common mildots many of you had. Note that the round ones and oval, football shaped ones are different sizes, be sure to use the one your scope has.

CaPRC Marksmanship Clinic "B" 10-23-11

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