Sniper's Hide Cup Roll Call!

Short Action Precision · Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:28 am

I know we got one guy going to this!!

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:30 pm

I am shooting it.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:23 pm

I am shooting this as well.....

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:56 pm

Steven is a big match man now days.

Sent from my iPhone.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:59 pm

what ever that means, whatever... I am going to have fun.... Of course it would be nice if I came in other than last.....

Short Action Precision · Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:13 pm

Good luck Steven! Have fun who cares about place!

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:23 pm

Gnzrme wrote:what ever that means, whatever... I am going to have fun.... Of course it would be nice if I came in other than last.....

Steven, nothing negative. It's good to see you shooting some bigger matches.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:53 pm

None believed. I am looking forward to shooting as many matches as I can...

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:20 am

Hi guys,

How different are these matches from the ones held by CAPRC?

Teletiger7 · Post by **Teletiger7** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:34 am

gau17 wrote:Hi guys,

How different are these matches from the ones held by CAPRC?

These are big national events that bring out the best shooters from all backgrounds.

They sometimes take a few days to shoot.

There are more elaborate stages, with more time, planning and bigger ranges put into it.

There are prize tables with prizes that are worth thousands(rifles,scopes,etc.)

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 am

Teletiger - Thank you. It sounds like fun. Hopefully I can make it to one of them this yr.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:09 pm

The larger matches are nothing like a club monthly match. They generally have much harder COF, filled with top lever shooters, 150 to 300 rounds and last a few days.

They are all great fun and as mentioned have killer prized tables.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Plus they are filled with evenings of fun times and friends...

Short Action Precision · Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:18 pm

I would suggest that if you have only shot the CAPRC monthly match to try and get out to some of the other matches that are in the area such as WEGC the Vegas Match or the Phoenix Match. It is a great way to get some more experience under your belt before going to one of these bigger matches (just getting in is a challenge). The big matches are fun and frustrating at the same time! Prize tables are great but its how well the match is that most of us care about.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:19 pm

seriously they want 120.00/night for a hotel room in Casper, Wyoming?

peerless · Post by **peerless** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:56 pm

steven.
I made reservation with super 8 about $62.00 a night from june 19th till 24 th. in douglas, double queen bed.

http://www.peerlessrifleco.com

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:24 am

Much better... Thats more my speed....

wildcard · Post by **wildcard** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:36 am

Best way to learn is to get your ass handed to you a few times. Don't worry about jumping from a monthly match to a big match. You're merely taking the same basic principles and applying it to a different scenario.

The absolutely most important rule is that you're SAFE! There is zero tolerance for anything contrary.

know what the rules are and you'll learn a ton while having a great time.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:22 am

Well said

Sent from my iPhone.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Solomon,

I go to these matches not because I think that I can place well, but to experience the different venues, interact with other shooters who I would not met otherwise and to learn. I walk away from every match learning something (like having to practice more at barricades). I enjoy traveling although the Snipers Hide Cup between match fees, train up fees, travel, accomodations, lodging, rental car and food is going to be close to 1500.00. Thats not including the time that I am going to have to take off of work... But in the end, I will be a better shooter and learn something.

As an example; when I was in AZ for TPRC (not shooting) I was talking with Wade Stuteville. He is currently leading the entire Precision Rifle Series and is sponsored by Surgeon Rifles. I was standing next to him on Day 2 of TPRC and asked him how he prepares for major matches. He then shared how each of his fellow team mates brings a certain skill or talent and then designs stages or practice sessions around that skill for the others to practice on and get good at. I know that Vu Pham, President of the Nor-Cal club collects AAR to see what the trends are at major matches and then designs stages and practices things that they might not have seen otherwise.

You will need to make sure your gear is up to par. I went to AZ last year with under-sized ammo and ended up with live rounds stuck inside the rifle and unable to close or extract the bolt. Definately not a good situation to be in...

Hopefully I will continue to get better and place better at these matches, but in the long run, I think I come out ahead.

Come to some other area matches and then come to a major match and see what I am talking about. I would even go with you if its not too far....

ReligiousShooter · Post by **ReligiousShooter** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:29 pm

The Cup is in Wyoming?

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:46 pm

yup... they had a different venue in the begining, but moved it to wyoming. Apparently its being held on somebody's ranch with 7k acres to play on... Elevation looks to be about 6k so its going to kick my ass... I might end up doing to runing around at the place I have in Big Bear just to acclimate...

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Steven,

I totally understand what you guys are saying. I guess with my limited experience I wanted to get an idea of what to expect. I eventually want to do one of these bigger matches. I've been following Charley's posts and they sound really fun

Too bad I didn't win that 1/2 Billion lotto. I was going to buy a motor home and take us all on a shooting tour.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:36 pm

Yeah, I tried to win it too.... Would have been nice... Hope to see you at an away match sometime...

Post by **Gnzrme** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Ray, I am reading reviews of the Super 8 motel and its the lowest rated motel and described as stinky, dirty and scary.... Is your reservation refundable. There is a better place to stay in town called the 4 winds motel and that is much better according to the reviews.... Its like just the same price so its a wash....

peerless · Post by **peerless** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:18 pm

Steven.
Yes, It is refundable,do you have a number to call or i can find out, Have you made the res. yet or waiting on me.

Ray.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Ray, I have my wife working on the reservation tomorrow.... I will let you know what she comes up with....

Hey, nice job in the match yesterday.....

Post by **Gnzrme** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:28 pm

Frank posted up some people have not paid for their spots, might be some additional spots opening up... If anyone is interested in applying, goto Snipers Hide and look for the cup sub forum and follow the application instructions....

Post by **Gnzrme** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Ok... So over 600 pieces of brass annealed and deprimmed/resized. Note to self... Do not mix primmed brass with unprimmed and then anneal. Had 2 primmers detonate blowing a piece of something into my thigh and drawing blood...

. Now I have to trim all the cases and then charge them with powder.... Anybody want to bring their charge master over and help....?

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon May 21, 2012 10:01 pm

That shit was funny.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Mon May 21, 2012 10:41 pm

Yeah. Once I knew my balls were still there it was funny until I saw the blood but it wasn't that bad...

Short Action Precision · Mon May 21, 2012 11:13 pm

Steven...I think you should stick with factory reloads from now on!

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:14 am

Gnzrme wrote:Ok... So over 600 pieces of brass annealed and deprimmed/resized. Note to self... Do not mix primmed brass with unprimmed and then anneal. Had 2 primmers detonate blowing a piece of something into my thigh and drawing blood... . Now I have to trim all the cases and then charge them with powder.... Anybody want to bring their charge master over and help....?

I don't know where to begin............

1) Why are you annealing 600pcs? Do you honestly have 600pcs that need to be annealed?

2)If cases are PRIMED, that's suppose to mean they are all prepped and ready for powder & bullet.

3)How did you have TWO detonations?!!!!! Didn't you learn after the first one?

4)Why are you trimming them after you anneal them? Resize, Trim/Prep, Anneal, Prime, Load

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:24 am

buffybuster wrote:4)Why are you trimming them after you anneal them? Resize, Trim/Prep, Anneal, Prime, Load

I would tend to anneal cases before re-sizing them so that I got the benefit of more consistent neck tension.

If you size them and then anneal them, you still have inconsistency in the neck diameters before seating a bullet as the sizing was based on the pre-annealed hardness of the brass.
By annealing the brass before sizing I would hope to have more consistent control of the neck diameters after re-sizing them.

Stoopy · Post by **Stoopy** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:28 am

How often do you anneal the brass? I was going to anneal Lapua 308 brass after the fifth time its fired.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:38 am

AR15barrels wrote:
I would tend to anneal cases before re-sizing them so that I got the benefit of more consistent neck tension.

If you size them and then anneal them, you still have inconsistency in the neck diameters before seating a bullet as the sizing was based on the pre-annealed hardness of the brass.
By annealing the brass before sizing I would hope to have more consistent control of the neck diameters after re-sizing them.

This is a bit of a "chicken or the egg" situation. The purpose of annealing is to stress relieve the brass around the neck area to provide more consistent neck tension. If you resize after you anneal, you are again working the brass and introducing stress into it. Granted it's not much stress, but it's still there and more importantly the stress is not consistent around the entire neck, as the brass is inevitably worked more on one side than the other. If I were to anneal, I would anneal after resizing to fully stress relieve the necks prior to seating, so the bullet seating is the only thing that is working the brass.

I don't know if there is a definitive benefit to when you size. I wonder if you could reduce runout and improve neck tension consistency by sizing, annealing then sizing again. The second sizing operation would be very minimal and possibly just true up any of the brass spring back from the first sizing operation.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:02 am

Stoopy wrote:How often do you anneal the brass? I was going to anneal Lapua 308 brass after the fifth time its fired.

Some shooters (even very serious competitors) never anneal.
Some shooters anneal every time.

There is no absolute consensus on the necessity of annealing and when to do it. If you feel the amount of force required to seat a bullet is erratic, that can be a sign the necks are becoming work hardened. If you get cracked necks that almost a sure sign the brass has gotten work hardened.

Brass cannot be hardened by heat treatment (like steel). If can only be hardened by working it (drawing and forming). The drawing and forming process to create the case from a blank is critical to hardening the base and head portions of the case to withstand the pressures and hold the primer. All bottleneck rifle brass goes through an annealing process to stress relieve the necks.

My opinion; most BR shooters anneal to extend the life of their carefully prepped brass. With the pressures involved it seems unlikely that differences in neck tension affect bullet release, especially if the bullets are jammed.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:13 am

The real question is why are you annealing brass you're plannig to loose at the Cup? Lol

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:11 am

DirtRacer151 wrote:The real question is why are you annealing brass you're plannig to loose at the Cup? Lol

Excellent Point!

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:29 am

I'm going to guess because he is prepping a batch of "throw away" brass from several sources, shot out of several different rifles, with varying number of firings on them.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:34 am

GforceJunkie wrote:I'm going to guess because he is prepping a batch of "throw away" brass from several sources, shot out of several different rifles, with varying number of firings on them.

More reason to load em and toss em!!

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:05 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
More reason to load em and toss em!!

Annealing a bunch of different batches of brass would make them more consistent across the whole lot.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:11 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I'm going to guess because he is prepping a batch of "throw away" brass from several sources, shot out of several different rifles, with varying number of firings on them.

My greatest concern about using brass from various sources is you are unable to resize the base portion of the case. If you have a "tight" chamber and your brass was fired in a "loose" chamber, even FL sizing you will not be able to size down that last little bit of the base. That will result in either sticking the case while chambering for sticking the case while extracting. Either can take you off the line.

Small Base dies are suppose to address this issue, but it's one that I'd rather not open myself up to. BTDT.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:51 pm

Henry,

They can be check with a case cage right?

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Wed May 23, 2012 2:07 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
Annealing a bunch of different batches of brass would make them more consistent across the whole lot.

Really? We're talking about Steven here. He's going to be asleep half the time anyway :o

I always pick up brass. Any headstamp, any condition, any caliber. If a shooter leaves and doesn't collect it then its mine. It all gets thrown in a separate pouch on my pack and sorted when I get home. I load this brass up for stages that I suspect ill loose some of it on. All cases get marked with a sharpie.

I think I only lost 10 cases in phoenix and I didn't loose any at TBRC. I always come back with more if I count the brass I pick up and isn't mine.

I'd rather leave the consistency to my good brass. Use the pick up brass on run n gun stages where time is an issue and I can't pay attention to where my brass is flying. Of all my pick up brass, I haven't noticed any odd side effects when shooting it next to my good stuff. Now, I'd never shoot it on the 800-1k lines at Sac but at 100yds to 600 its always shot just fine and is actually quite accurate.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed May 23, 2012 2:08 pm

gau17 wrote:Henry,

They can be check with a case cage right?

Only if the gauge is the same dimensions or tighter than your chamber.
It's best to have a chamber gauge cut with the same reamer exact that chambered your barrel.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:21 pm

gau17 wrote:Henry,

They can be check with a case cage right?

Ideally the case gage would be cut with the same reamer that cut your chamber. If you use a standard case gage, which is going to be cut nearer to SAMMI standard, that's not going to be much use to you if your chamber is match specification.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:31 pm

gau17 wrote:Henry,

They can be check with a case cage right?

Or just check it in your rifle. Pull the firing pin if you really want to be safe checking loaded ammo.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:10 pm

Wow. Where do I begin. Primer detonation was on a auto annealer so there were like 300 cases in the annealer do when one went the 2nd went off in like 1 minute. Yes anneal 1st size 2nd. Annealing because of various sources. Yes alot if work for throw away brass but it is what it is

ReligiousShooter · Post by **ReligiousShooter** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:45 pm

What is the difference of annealing brass on the target? Less fliers? MOA to .5 MOA? What's the real world pay off?