Magpul Dyn PR1 or SPR in SoCal for Dec 2011

socalsheepdog · Post by **socalsheepdog** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:52 pm

UPDATE: I am talking with Caylen Wojcik who teaches Precision Rifle / Special Purpose / Designated Marksman Rifle for MagPul Dynamics about coming down to Southern California in March 2012 not Dec 2011 as previously posted. If we can get the head count, I would like to host SPR and PR1 back to back. We originally thought December but I would not want to risk cancellations since Dec is such a busy month with money and travel for many of us.

Pala range is an option but the PR1 class can have us shooting out to 1100 yards so Caylen and I are looking for some possible locations that would serve OC, LA, SD, SB and RS counties. We will have more on this later.

March would work better for those who need to squirrel away some money for tuition and ammo. Back to back classes will be a little spendy but worth the time and investment if you can do it. I have received feedback from many and there is a handful who have expressed interest in both.

There will also be an opportunity for shooters to purchase the MGM AR500 Targets we will us during the class at a 30% discount and no shipping costs. This would be a great time to purchase that IPSC Steel plate you have been wanting. http://mgmtargets.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please let me know if you are interested in this. And if so, would you want a SPR, PR1 or both. If I get enough response I will get Caylen to get in on the calendar. We have to have 18 committed shooters to get Caylen's travel booked.

IF you have a way to help spread the word on this I would be grateful.

PM me for questions or you can email me at socalsheepdog at g mail dot com

Josh

Class details
http://magpuldynamics.com/precision-rifle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Instructor Bio
http://www.magpul.com/assets/files/News ... 032311.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

savagE · Post by **savagE** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Why go to this when you have the expertise of so many great shooters in this club? $750 for a 4 day course sounds a little steep. You can go to all 4 clinics for about $200 if you are a member. Looks like you are just paying extra for hype.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:06 pm

I would agree. CaPRC runs very good classes for cheap to promote the sport.

Sent from my iPhone.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:08 pm

Question everything.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:13 pm

MichaelV wrote:Question everything.

Yes, start with why in the hell would I waste money on this class.

Sent from my iPhone.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:47 pm

You guys clearly are not tacti-cool enough

Post by **AR15barrels** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:42 pm

MichaelV wrote:Question everything.

cerusmc21 · Post by **cerusmc21** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:03 pm

FTA is having a class in november for $500 that goes out to 800 yards. $750 seems a little steep...maybe for the brand name?

socalsheepdog · Post by **socalsheepdog** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:10 pm

savagE wrote:Why go to this when you have the expertise of so many great shooters in this club? $750 for a 4 day course sounds a little steep. You can go to all 4 clinics for about $200 if you are a member. Looks like you are just paying extra for hype.

So what you are saying is one should not concern themselves with any other training program because CaPRC is the end all be all in training. When I can afford it, I try to get in as much training by different training firms as possible. You will always learn something, see another way of doing something etc. Being in LE, I have been educated by many different people over the last 18 years and I always take something home from it.

$750 is a lot to some and not to others. I guess you have to see if there is value in it for you. If not, don't attend. $750 is about average for this. Rifles Only is $1500, Badlands in OK is $500. I would like to attend both some day. I see value at both price points.

What about all the people who did not get into Sunday's clinic? How long do they have to wait for another A clinic? Then a B clinic etc. Don't get me wrong, what CaPRC is doing is a huge service to shooters and the sport and my hats off to them. I will be attempting to attend all clinics offered but for some, to be able to throw done a few bucks and get it all in 4 days is a value to them.

Cheers.

Josh

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:36 pm

socalsheepdog wrote:
So what you are saying is one should not concern themselves with any other training program because CaPRC is the end all be all in training. When I can afford it, I try to get in as much training by different training firms as possible. You will always learn something, see another way of doing something etc. Being in LE, I have been educated by many different people over the last 18 years and I always take something home from it.

$750 is a lot to some and not to others. I guess you have to see if there is value in it for you. If not, don't attend. $750 is about average for this. Rifles Only is $1500, Badlands in OK is $500. I would like to attend both some day. I see value at both price points.

What about all the people who did not get into Sunday's clinic? How long do they have to wait for another A clinic? Then a B clinic etc. Don't get me wrong, what CaPRC is doing is a huge service to shooters and the sport and my hats off to them. I will be attempting to attend all clinics offered but for some, to be able to throw done a few bucks and get it all in 4 days is a value to them.

Cheers

Josh

Is the CaPRC training the be all end all? No. Is it great training? yes. Frankly some of the best training you can get is to go out and compete. I would place value on instruction from guys winning matches over most classes offered.

Personally it's a bit rude to post a competing training class when you only have a few posts. We don't do this for the money but to promote the sport and get shooters engaged. We could have a A,B,C, and D clinic every month if people would step up to run them.

socalsheepdog · Post by **socalsheepdog** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:56 pm

264Charlie wrote:

Is the CaPRC training the be all end all? No. Is it great training? yes. Frankly some of the best training you can get is to go out and compete. I would place value on instruction from guys winning matches over most classes offered.

Personally it's a bit rude to post a competing training class when you only have a few posts. We don't do this for the money but to promote the sport and get shooters engaged. We could have a A,B,C, and D clinic every month if people would step up to run them.

Did I not give credit to you guys and what you are doing for this sport?

I looked for a post about posting rules, didn't see any. I posted with good intention, not to be rude. I considered 7 posts crapping on my thread a bit rude. My apologies for talking about training other than CaPRC. Had I thought you would consider this "competing" I would not have posted it. Would you like me to remove this post?

Let me know what you want me to do.

Josh

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:17 pm

socalsheepdog wrote:
Did I not give credit to you guys and what you are doing for this sport?

I looked for a post about posting rules, didn't see any. I posted with good intention, not to be rude. I considered 7 posts crapping on my thread a bit rude. My apologies for talking about training other than CaPRC. Had I thought you would consider this "competing" I would not have posted it. Would you like me to remove this post?

Let me know what you want me to do.

Josh

Don't worry brother. The powers that be have something against competitors posting on their forum. Go post on Norcal, az, or snipershide and I'm sure they will be receptive to competition.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:19 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting the Magpul Class up here. It might be an ok class, just a bit pricey and clearly aimed at noobs who want to be a tactical sniper. Still may be enjoyable.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:23 pm

MichaelV wrote:I don't think there is anything wrong with posting the Magpul Class up here. It might be an ok class, just a bit pricey and clearly aimed at noobs who want to be a tactical sniper. Still may be enjoyable.

I think we all can agree it would he fun. I'm pretty sure those dudes know their shit too and even seasoned vets in the competition world would most likely learn a few things. Would it be worth $750? I dunno but I would probably take the class if I wasn't a cheap ass just for fun.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:51 pm

socalsheepdog wrote:
Did I not give credit to you guys and what you are doing for this sport?

I looked for a post about posting rules, didn't see any. I posted with good intention, not to be rude. I considered 7 posts crapping on my thread a bit rude. My apologies for talking about training other than CaPRC. Had I thought you would consider this "competing" I would not have posted it. Would you like me to remove this post?

Let me know what you want me to do.

Josh

You can post what you want man. I personally find it a bit rude. That said, you are getting shit because it's a Magpul class. Nothing wrong with attending training, I am off to Rifles Only next week.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:53 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
Don't worry brother. The powers that be have something against competitors posting on their forum. Go post on Norcal, az, or snipershide and I'm sure they will be receptive to competition.

The "powers at be" have no issue, I do personally.

supertrooper1 · Post by **supertrooper1** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:18 pm

i dodnt get why so many people whine and bitch when magpul gets mentioned. as someone that that carries a gun at work i found the handgun dvds helpful and hope to take the real class someday. i think their LR class would be heppfull for our type of shooting but idont think they are compeating against us. magpulis geared toward shooting people qnd we shoot small paper and steel. i have taken two of the caprc chasses and learned alot especialy from charlie, randal and keith and i thank you guys for your time and effort. who ever whans to take the classmand has the cash to drop shouldnt have to take crap because its run by magpul.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:27 am

supertrooper1 wrote:i dodnt get why so many people whine and bitch when magpul gets mentioned. as someone that that carries a gun at work i found the handgun dvds helpful and hope to take the real class someday. i think their LR class would be heppfull for our type of shooting but idont think they are compeating against us. magpulis geared toward shooting people qnd we shoot small paper and steel. i have taken two of the caprc chasses and learned alot especialy from charlie, randal and keith and i thank you guys for your time and effort. who ever whans to take the classmand has the cash to drop shouldnt have to take crap because its run by magpul.

I think it's because the Magpul name is associated with AR15s and Arfcommers... not serious precision instruction. That could change with time if their classes are good and they earn the respect of the precision guys but for now there are really good teachers already out there who specialize in our art, we don't need to Question Everything. (TM)

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:33 am

264Charlie wrote:
The "powers at be" have no issue, I do personally.

That's different then what you told me a couple weeks ago over the phone?! Why has your opinion changed now?

I'm my eyes if you offer a good enough product you have no reason to worry. Maybe you're actually doubting your product as are some others around here....

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:37 am

264Charlie wrote:

Yes, start with why in the hell would I waste money on this class.

Sent from my iPhone.

Says the guy that paid 1550.00 + travel to do a 1 week PR1 PR2 course with Rifles Only in NorCal. Some folks will say that is crazy, but to you it is worth it. Same goes for every training course, company, instructor, and venue. Personally I think RO is the best in the business and have a great track record.

Sheepdog posted the same info on our forum, did we question it? Nope. One of our shooters did the course with Caylen a few months ago and felt it was a good period of instruction. People will vote with their dollars.

NCPPRC offers 1 day clinics, and then we bring in RO to do a real PR1 PR2 course for those that really want to dive deep into the training aspect of precision rifle shooting. Just because you SHOOT a precision rifle, does not qualify you to teach it.

RO and Magpul are in the business of teaching, if one has the means, and feels they would benifit from the training, why not?

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:48 am

Also keep in mind RO and Magpul training is focused on operators, not competitive shooting.

TWO different worlds. You will find out this week Jacob and crew will switch gears from real world application and competitive shooting.

Good training from a good instructor will run 300 to 350 a day, that's the norm. That pays for materials, travel if they are doing a MTU type of deal, and range fees. Good training ain't cheap.

I've had a chance to talk to Caylen in OR at OSC, he seems like a good guy and is passionate about what he does.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:54 am

savagE wrote:Why go to this when you have the expertise of so many great shooters in this club? $750 for a 4 day course sounds a little steep. You can go to all 4 clinics for about $200 if you are a member. Looks like you are just paying extra for hype.

Listen, I am sure you guys do a GREAT job at your clinics, but comparing those to a week long PR course is almost comical.

Guess Charlie is just wasting his time since he is able to put on these clinics, why hit up a RO PR1 PR 2 course?

750.00 / 4 days = 187.50 a day.

That's cheap for professional firearms training from a good school/instructor. Do some research and you'll find a lot charge 250 to 350 per day.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:07 am

I would place value on instruction from guys winning matches over most classes offered.

That's plain ignorance Charlie.

You will rarely find the names of the RO instructors this week in comp standings posted on the net. Does that mean they don't know their shit, or can't teach? Just because a person does not compete doesn't mean they do not have something they can teach someone. Some of best tactical firearm instructors are unknown by the majority, do you know why? It's because they are either training soldiers, or kicking doors down doing what they teach.

Who do you have winning matches that is teaching your clinics? Ryan? If I am not mistaken, Ryan is the only So Cal shooter to win a major event, 2010 TBRC....

just saying.....

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:47 pm

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:15 pm

Honestly, I am not trying to slam anyone.

Just proving the point that you don't have to be a "winning" comp shooter to pass on good info.

Take Marc Soulie for example, he hasn't technically "won" a major match, but anyone that knows him or has seen him shoot can tell the man knows his way behind a rifle.

Another good example is our clinics. Francis is by far one of the most successful tac comp shooters out there. He has won TBRC twice, Oregon OSC, Sniper's Hide Bash, placed 2nd at TPRC in 2010, and place right behind D. Tubb in New Mexico. Notice he is not the sole instructor or subject matter expert at our clinics?

If you pick up a few good tips, tricks or tools for your tool box in a course, I think it's worth the time and efforts.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:23 pm

vu308 wrote:Honestly, I am not trying to slam anyone.

Just proving the point that you don't have to be a "winning" comp shooter to pass on good info.

Take Marc Soulie for example, he hasn't technically "won" a major match, but anyone that knows him or has seen him shoot can tell the man knows his way behind a rifle.

Another good example is our clinics. Francis is by far one of the most successful tac comp shooters out there. He has won TBRC twice, Oregon OSC, Sniper's Hide Bash, placed 2nd at TPRC in 2010, and place right behind D. Tubb in New Mexico. Notice he is not the sole instructor or subject matter expert at our clinics?

If you pick up a few good tips, tricks or tools for your tool box in a course, I think it's worth the time and efforts.

To me this all just sounds like you're secretly trying to promote NorCal clinics here. Don't you know thats frowned upon around here?

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Nah, we roll 1 clinic per year and it fills within a few hours. Wish we could do more, but that is what schools like RO are for.

Our clinics are just to get the shooter's feet wet. If they have the desire to seek out more training, we send them off to RO since they are in the business of training people how to shoot.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:36 pm

Much of this was taken out of context and perhaps poorly written on my part.

James, I have no issues with you, your team or other training posted on the site 90% of the time. A few days before a club event was rude in my eyes and my eyes alone. No one else agrees with me. It's Just me and has nothing to due with what we talked about. I spoke with the OP today at the training and we have no hard feelings at all.

Vu, I see value in quality training and will pay what is cost to attend. I have no issues paying for the RO class, I pay every month for SH online and have attend a few other classes a long the way from local guys. I said I would trust guys winning matches over MOST classes not all. Maybe I am wrong but the Magpul class seems a bit silly to me. I am sure it has the basics but I would not attend. Now a Rifles Only class I would attend (and I'm attending).

As for who is teaching the CaPRC classes, it depends on the class. We offer four different classes from be gaining shooters to advanced days. Seth wrote most of the content and teaches with input from many others including Ryan, Bard and Randall. I don't think anyone would question Seth's credentials. The fact that we have 30+ pages instructional docs with pictures per event in a plus too. We could put them all in one weeks but it's hard for most shooters to get off work. If we did we still would not charge 750+. The CaPRC classes are to get new shooters up and running not make money.

vu308 wrote:Honestly, I am not trying to slam anyone.

Just proving the point that you don't have to be a "winning" comp shooter to pass on good info.

Take Marc Soulie for example, he hasn't technically "won" a major match, but anyone that knows him or has seen him shoot can tell the man knows his way behind a rifle.

Another good example is our clinics. Francis is by far one of the most successful tac comp shooters out there. He has won TBRC twice, Oregon OSC, Sniper's Hide Bash, placed 2nd at TPRC in 2010, and place right behind D. Tubb in New Mexico. Notice he is not the sole instructor or subject matter expert at our clinics?

If you pick up a few good tips, tricks or tools for your tool box in a course, I think it's worth the time and efforts.

Vu, I don't think we are in disagreement on this. I think anyone that places well in a local match or big event has the skills to teach others. I never said it had to be a big event.

Shooting is not the primary sport I compete in or focus on. For me it's jiujitsu. I'm not black belt but I can teach new guys a lot and get them as good as me in a year or two less than in took me. In many cases I see things that black belts over look and assume everyone should know. I think the same applies to shooting. You don't need the best guy to teach you, a guy that know what he is talking about and willing to help will go a long way.

Thevic · Post by **Thevic** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:45 pm

So who has seen the video? I downloaded it

and saw the first disc and stopped on the 2nd when they started shooting the 360degree calling for wind. Video isnt all that bad so far...I feel neutral about it really.

I am getting this feeling when I goto the range, people with their new expensive rig will strike conversation with if I watched the Magpul video hah.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:52 am

The video started off ok but I think it sucks after about halfway through the 2nd video. Remember its 5 discs long!!! It's a good thing I know what he's talking about already or I would be lost if I was a newbie still. The first video is the best because its a good refresher of the fundamentals. I even picked up a few new things I want to try. After that its just numbers, and numbers, and numbers..... It's hard to follow along if your new. It's boring for me so I was paying attention to my computer more then the TV.

I would discourage any newbies from buying the video honestly. But if you must ill sell you my copy for $45

Thevic · Post by **Thevic** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:18 am

I want a big laser range finder like in the video so I can look like i'm painting for an air strike haha

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:50 am

DirtRacer151 wrote:The video started off ok but I think it sucks after about halfway through the 2nd video. Remember its 5 discs long!!! It's a good thing I know what he's talking about already or I would be lost if I was a newbie still. The first video is the best because its a good refresher of the fundamentals. I even picked up a few new things I want to try. After that its just numbers, and numbers, and numbers..... It's hard to follow along if your new. It's boring for me so I was paying attention to my computer more then the TV.

I would discourage any newbies from buying the video honestly. But if you must ill sell you my copy for $45

James beat me because he watched the Magpul video.