robert hode wrote:New guy question...
I'm new to this sport and want to start off on the right foot.
Can you give some examples of in "X" situation this would be considered "adapting" and that would be considered "gaming"?
Do most COF's state what equipment is and is not allowed, and if certain equipment is allowed, how it can be used?

MikeV wrote:if the stage call's that you must shoot prone and not let your bipod touch the ground, it's gaming if someone places a piece of paper between the bipod and the ground and says "well the bipod is not touching the ground"

robert hode wrote:I need all the help I can get to get hits, but I would like to score my points based on the "spirit & intent" of the rules, not on a splitting hairs narrow definition of the rules.

buffybuster wrote:Most often "gaming" occurs when there is latitude/leeway on the interpretation of the stage instructions.
For example:
Instructions: "Stage must be shot in the seated position."
Intent: The stage is configured so the shooter can shoot the stage in the conventional seated firing position (what you were taught in basic).
Gamer: Can be shot by any method as long as my butt in on the ground.......so I'll sit and put my rucksack in front to support the rifle.....etc...

Example in other shooting disciplines is: There's a 28 round Action pistol stage so the "gamer" loads a 33rd glock mag and draws that from the holster....... rather than doing a reload as intended...

It's a way to win, but it generally leaves a bad taste in those that competed to the intent than by the letter of the instructions. And if the gaming is blatant enough the MD usually alters the instructions for the next match to preclude that particular method but gamers never rest......

AR15barrels wrote:
I'm a gamer and I say it's not gaming if it's within the rules.
Now, some match directors do a very good job of defining the rules and others leave much to be interpreted by the shooter.
It's not my fault (as a gamer) that other people don't choose to interpret the rules right to the edge.
The match director can write the rules any way they like.
All they need to do to stop so called "gaming" is to better define the rules.

Vu's example of how to stop ryan's seated position by simply placing a 15" tall board in front of the shooter is a perfect example.

If they say seated is "butt on the ground", then people are going to use packs or rest the rifle on their boots.
If they say seated is "butt on the ground, elbows on knees, no part of the rifle touching anything other than sling, hands, shoulder and face", that closes the interpretation quite a bit.

AR15barrels wrote:
I'm a gamer and I say it's not gaming if it's within the rules.
Now, some match directors do a very good job of defining the rules and others leave much to be interpreted by the shooter.
It's not my fault (as a gamer) that other people don't choose to interpret the rules right to the edge.
The match director can write the rules any way they like.
All they need to do to stop so called "gaming" is to better define the rules.

Vu's example of how to stop ryan's seated position by simply placing a 15" tall board in front of the shooter is a perfect example.

If they say seated is "butt on the ground", then people are going to use packs or rest the rifle on their boots.
If they say seated is "butt on the ground, elbows on knees, no part of the rifle touching anything other than sling, hands, shoulder and face", that closes the interpretation quite a bit.

DirtRacer151 wrote:So what exactly did jicko do to make himself famous? I think that was slightly before my time here.

rksimple wrote:And this one (on a more serious note)

AR15barrels wrote:If they want to allow that one, then they can describe seated as: "butt on the ground, no part of the rifle touching anything other than sling, hands, arms, knees, shoulder and face".

AR15barrels wrote:
If they want to allow that one, then they can describe seated as: "butt on the ground, no part of the rifle touching anything other than sling, hands, arms, knees, shoulder and face".

rksimple wrote:
Or maybe just the NRA rules

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... sr-w05.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They lay it out pretty well.

gme wrote:I like the practical element of tactical competitions, less regulation (other that common sense safety) more problem solving, improvising and adapting is at the core of what tactical matches are.

buffybuster wrote:Gaming is NOT cheating. What it is, Is abiding to the rules/instructions exactly as they are written/spoken.

Jicko sometimes takes that to a whole other level..........

ColdSteel wrote:Randall... You ever thought about offering your ranger to shoot off of for a stage?

robert hode wrote:I guess gaming is like what they say about what is art and what is porn. ..."I'll know it when I see it".

wildcard wrote:According to Webster

Main Entry: ga·mer
Pronunciation: \ˈgā-mər\
Function: noun
Date: 21st century
: Jicko
: one that plays
: person who plays a game outside the spirit of the rules in a competitive field or process

DirtRacer151 wrote:So what exactly did jicko do to make himself famous?

Teletiger7 wrote:I think the name they gave that position was "frog stance"

phish wrote:Did not need to post that first pic...

Gnzrme wrote:Just be thankful that Kurtis wasn't there...I am sure he would have had some choice comments

wildcard wrote:the defining moment was what happened when he was told "no elbows on the ground."

rksimple wrote:Or maybe just the NRA rules

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... sr-w05.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They lay it out pretty well.

5.1 The Ground - All references to "the ground" in the following position Rules are to be construed as applying
to the surface of the firing point, floor, or shooting mats, and platforms as are customarily used on shooting ranges.

5.2 Artificial Support - Any supporting surface except the ground not specifically authorized for use in the
Rules for the position prescribed. Digging of elbow or heel holes at the firing points which form artificial support for
the elbows, arms, or legs is prohibited. Use of artificial support is prohibited except as individually authorized by
NRA for a physically handicapped shooter.

5.3 Position of Rifle Butt - In all positions, the butt of the rifle must be held against the front of the shoulder
on the outside of the shooting coat or shirt and must not touch the ground.

5.10 Sitting - Weight of the body supported on the buttocks and the feet or ankles, no other portion of the
body touching the ground. The rifle will be supported by both hands and one shoulder only. Arms may rest on the
legs at any point above the ankles.

AR15barrels wrote:
Your rifle-on-boots position is not NRA legal.



First, you don't have the rifle against your shoulder.
Secondly, the butt of the rifle is artifically supported by your boot.

rksimple wrote: I can rest the stock on my knee, but getting the butt into my shoulder would be more than difficult.

wildcard wrote:
That just means you need a custom buttstock to allow you to do it.

DirtRacer151 wrote:LMAO ok now thats gaming!!

vu308 wrote:I would like to also add that while a lot of folks did write me about now what is coined as the "so cal sitting" position, it was within the rules.

wildcard wrote:
Funny part about this is that the so cal crew calls it the Ryan Kerr sitting position