• Cleaning the barrel

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:27 am**

So I've been reading up on cleaning the barrel and am finding a lot of conflicting information. So I'd like to hear what you guys think on the topic of cleaning the barrel.

Did you shoot the "recommended" break-in method?
How often do you clean your barrel?
After X rounds shot through?
At the end of the day?
Only when groupings start to open up?

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:50 am**

Dive N Shoot wrote:So I've been reading up on cleaning the barrel and am finding a lot of conflicting information. So I'd like to hear what you guys think on the topic of cleaning the barrel.

Did you shoot the "recommended" break-in method?
No. It's a waste of time, energy and components.
How often do you clean your barrel?
Every few hundred rounds but only if groups open up
After X rounds shot through?
Definitely Not.
At the end of the day?
Um, no.
Only when groupings start to open up?
Yes.

Thanks
you're welcome

I think I covered all your questions. This is probably the Most Debated topic in shooting and everyone has an opinion. Some say factory barrels need it. Custom barrels don't need it at all. Once you have a couple fouling shots through it, let it rip and don't touch it til it starts shooting shitty. With my latest barrel I zero'd with the first four shots then immediately started doing OCW loads for it. I've cleaned once (at around 450rds, put a Hoppes patch thru it) and haven't cleaned the barrel since.

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:12 pm**

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... afternoon/

From Mark's links

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:39 pm**

jwpark wrote:http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... afternoon/

From Mark's links

He is correct when it comes to not letting the barrel cool down and slowing down the amount of rounds in a string. But, his results would have surely been the same even without the cleaning every 50 or 100 rounds. One of the reasons we dont clean a barrel as often is because it takes several rounds through the barrel to get it to settle back to how it was originally shooting. Imperfections in my not so perfect factory barrel get filled in with copper and fouling and once that happens the groups become more consistent. I dont want to take a cold bore shot to 400+ yards with a freshly cleaned barrel

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:14 pm**

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:23 pm**

I'm curious whats everyones experience on the number of rounds needed to foul up a clean bore to get it "back shooting right." 5? 10? 50?

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:02 pm**

Depends on how aggressively you cleaned it...(or wore it out is more like it)...my old bbl would take about 10-20 rounds....Can't say on my new bbl, since I only have 70 rounds down it and I only patched it out 1x to make sure there were no chips in it...

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:18 pm**

GforceJunkie wrote:I'm curious whats everyones experience on the number of rounds needed to foul up a clean bore to get it "back shooting right." 5? 10? 50?

My lapped barrels seem to take 5 - 7 rounds.

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:21 pm**

Dive N Shoot wrote:
Did you shoot the "recommended" break-in method?
yes, shoot 200 rounds then foam over night shoot until groups open up.
How often do you clean your barrel?
about every 500 or so rounds... or I will clean before a big match then go confirm zero and Dope (20 - 30 rounds)
After X rounds shot through?
Nope
At the end of the day?
Nope
Only when groupings start to open up?
Yes, this will very by barrel, James had to clean every 60 or so me every 500...

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:18 pm**

Dive N Shoot wrote:So I've been reading up on cleaning the barrel and am finding a lot of conflicting information. So I'd like to hear what you guys think on the topic of cleaning the barrel.

Did you shoot the "recommended" break-in method?
Shoot once then clean (10 times)
Shoot twice then clean (10 times)
Do the same till I get up to 5 shots.
That was the plan till I met Henry. He told me I was cleaning my barrel too much so I stopped the process.
How often do you clean your barrel?
When my groups open up...maybe once every 300-400 rounds.
Like Charlie, I clean before a match. Then head to the range to check zero, dope and "re-foul". Usually takes 20 rounds
After X rounds shot through?
I find that the size of my groups are a better reference. That way I don't have to clean my barrel if its not necessary.
At the end of the day?
Only if I'm shooting milsurp with corrosive primers in my Mosin Nagant.
Only when groupings start to open up?
Yes.

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:47 pm**

I have about 600 rounds down my factory 700 .308 barrel and never even thought about cleaning it....Am I supposed to??

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:54 pm**

khw9mm wrote:I have about 600 rounds down my factory 700 .308 barrel and never even thought about cleaning it....Am I supposed to??

Honestly, as long as your groups are pretty tight, I don't think you have to clean it. According to Henry, you should be able to win the CAPRC matches with a 1 MOA rifle. Granted, you're able to be consistent in you're shooting.

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:57 pm**

dreka wrote:
Honestly, as long as your groups are pretty tight, I don't think you have to clean it. According to Henry, you should be able to win the CAPRC matches with a 1 MOA rifle. Granted, you're able to be consistent in you're shooting.

Well I have a rifle that shots 3/8 MOA all day and I have not won yet... Well we know it is not the rifle.

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:53 pm**

I'm just around 1000rds since I cleaned last. Barrel still shoots the same.......

Henry

Posted: **Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:17 am**

Did you shoot the "recommended" break-in method?

No, I just cleaned the barrel with some oil before I shot it in case there were chips in it.

How often do you clean your barrel?

Dry boresnake at the end of the day if there are chunks of stuff in there. Wet patch at the end of the day to prevent rust if I'm not going shooting for a few weeks (or if it was humid/rainy), followed by a dry patch before shooting again (to get the oil out).

Only when groupings start to open up?

When they do, I'll figure out what to do.

Posted: **Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:02 am**

Does leaving the brass and fouling in the barrel cause corrosion? Is oil enough to stop it? I always thought the idea behind cleaning the barrel was to keep it from corroding.

Posted: **Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:39 am**

evo wrote:Does leaving the brass and fouling in the barrel cause corrosion? Is oil enough to stop it? I always thought the idea behind cleaning the barrel was to keep it from corroding.

Corrosion is caused by certain types of powders and primers that leave deposits of salts in the barrel. Those salts attract and combine with moisture to create a corrosive combination. Modern powders and primers of the types we use dont contain any of those salts and therefore corosion isnt an issue.

Posted: **Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:50 pm**

Fantastic.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:57 am**

StraightShooter wrote:
Corrosion is caused by certain types of powders and primers that leave deposits of salts in the barrel. Those salts attract and combine with moisture to create a corrosive combination. Modern powders and primers of the types we use dont contain any of those salts and therefore corosion isnt an issue.

That leaves a question then:
Is galvanic corrosion a concern?
There are 2 dissimilar metals in contact with each other. Add a little humidity and there are the three parts needed for the corrosion to happen.
My belief is that there is not a concern as the copper that is in the barrel will sacrifice itself to protect the steel/ stainless steel of your barrel. Thoughts?

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:34 pm**

MercilessMike wrote:
That leaves a question then:
Is galvanic corrosion a concern?
There are 2 dissimilar metals in contact with each other. Add a little humidity and there are the three parts needed for the corrosion to happen.
My belief is that there is not a concern as the copper that is in the barrel will sacrifice itself to protect the steel/ stainless steel of your barrel. Thoughts?

If I recall galvanic reactions, this statement is not entirely correct. For a galvanic reaction to occur there needs to be three things: Cathode (reduced), Anode (oxidized) and Salt Bridge. If a salt bridge is created and the Cu is the cathode and is being reduced, then the steel is the anode and thus being oxidized. While the anode is gaining an electron in the reaction, I think it gains it as a oxidized agent.......... meaning rust :x . BUT for this to occur, there has to be a salt bridge first.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:14 pm**

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/cen ... enance.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... m-barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

when I spend a grand on a precision barrel, I tend to listen to the mfg to make sure everything is on track.
The link above is for LiLJA maintenance. Is it a pain in the butt, yes... is it easy to do... no
Do you shoot the same groups every time out? ...Hmmm maybe, maybe not... ever wonder why?
If you scrub with a stainless bore brush, well... I guess you shoot box guns and not far out there.

oh, yes this is my first post but I was out cruising the net and stumbled onto this board and figured I stay a check it out for awhile. I already belong to several other "tactical" and sport boards and have many hundreds of posts on there so this aint my first rodeo....
Thanks for the warm welcome and I hope to contribute when I can to the wealth of knowledge here.

Oh, in case you have questions: the avatar is a tiny compressed pic of my .300 win mag made by Savage. Its the new 110 BAS with a Nightforce 12-42x on top. It has a built in 20 moa ramp, lots of adjustment to the stock, a fluted full floating barrel and bi-pod for ease of handling. I hand load all my loads for this one and it took me about a whole weekend to break in that new barrel. I have a nice varmit shooter but it's just a .220 Swift (Ruger M77) with a Nikon 6.5-20 on top and it gets a steady diet of 52 gr JBTHP's for the squirrels. LoL but it's only good out to 400 yds in the real world. The WinMag, well ... it's looking at the 1000 yd paper.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:00 pm**

cdennyb wrote:http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/cen ... enance.htm
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... m-barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

when I spend a grand on a precision barrel, I tend to listen to the mfg to make sure everything is on track.
The link above is for LiLJA maintenance. Is it a pain in the butt, yes... is it easy to do... no
Do you shoot the same groups every time out? ...Hmmm maybe, maybe not... ever wonder why?
If you scrub with a stainless bore brush, well... I guess you shoot box guns and not far out there.

oh, yes this is my first post but I was out cruising the net and stumbled onto this board and figured I stay a check it out for awhile. I already belong to several other "tactical" and sport boards and have many hundreds of posts on there so this aint my first rodeo....
Thanks for the warm welcome and I hope to contribute when I can to the wealth of knowledge here.

Oh, in case you have questions: the avatar is a tiny compressed pic of my .300 win mag made by Savage. Its the new 110 BAS with a Nightforce 12-42x on top. It has a built in 20 moa ramp, lots of adjustment to the stock, a fluted full floating barrel and bi-pod for ease of handling. I hand load all my loads for this one and it took me about a whole weekend to break in that new barrel. I have a nice varmit shooter but it's just a .220 Swift (Ruger M77) with a Nikon 6.5-20 on top and it gets a steady diet of 52 gr JBTHP's for the squirrels. LoL but it's only good out to 400 yds in the real world. The WinMag, well ... it's looking at the 1000 yd paper.

Hello and welcome,

Well most of us have read every manufacturers guide you can find and frankly they are BS. I you trust everything manufacturers tell you in any industry you will find yourself surrounded by misinformation and constantly buying new product needlessly.

What barrel cost $1,000? $250 - $310 is the norm for the best of the best. Many of the premium barrels installed on guns are destroyed by shooters with cleaning regiments. I tend to listen to the guys that win matches consistently not manufacturers.

As for the gun, I suspect you do shoot the much practical precision stuff or that many rounds based on it's config. That might explain why you have so much time to clean. As for me I just shoot anyway until my gun opens up then I spray some foam down the tube run a bore snake and go shoot another 600 -800 rounds or so.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:28 pm**

I think we have a Troll.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... ost2197983" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:33 pm**

Iloveguns wrote:I think we have a Troll.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... ost2197983" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep, one that loves Dan's barrels or site anyway. Found some other posts of his don't think he intends to come off that way.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:25 pm**

cdennyb wrote:http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/cen ... enance.htm
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... m-barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

when I spend a grand on a precision barrel, I tend to listen to the mfg to make sure everything is on track.
The link above is for LiLJA maintenance. Is it a pain in the butt, yes... is it easy to do... no
Do you shoot the same groups every time out? ...Hmmm maybe, maybe not... ever wonder why?
If you scrub with a stainless bore brush, well... I guess you shoot box guns and not far out there.

oh, yes this is my first post but I was out cruising the net and stumbled onto this board and figured I stay a check it out for awhile. I already belong to several other "tactical" and sport boards and have many hundreds of posts on there so this aint my first rodeo....
Thanks for the warm welcome and I hope to contribute when I can to the wealth of knowledge here.

Oh, in case you have questions: the avatar is a tiny compressed pic of my .300 win mag made by Savage. Its the new 110 BAS with a Nightforce 12-42x on top. It has a built in 20 moa ramp, lots of adjustment to the stock, a fluted full floating barrel and bi-pod for ease of handling. I hand load all my loads for this one and it took me about a whole weekend to break in that new barrel. I have a nice varmit shooter but it's just a .220 Swift (Ruger M77) with a Nikon 6.5-20 on top and it gets a steady diet of 52 gr JBTHP's for the squirrels. LoL but it's only good out to 400 yds in the real world. The WinMag, well ... it's looking at the 1000 yd paper.

Uh, what?

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm**

thanks for finding those posts. i AINT NO DAMN troll. I've been a member of snipers hibe since 2007. Read alot and post very little.
Couldn't help myself though when I read about not cleaning the copper out of a barrel when every mfg out there will tell you it doesnt help your shooting to leave it in there. I understand some good 10-12% ammonia solution will cut right thru the copper and of course it's a moisture trapper as well so having to follow up with some good solutions to get it out is required.
If you can shoot so great without having a consistent barrel bore, I'm impressed.
A grand for a barrel, actually you are correct, a barrel by itself is about $300. add some more for mating it to your action, adding flutes or other stuff to it like threads for a brake or paying to ship it from the mfg to you then to the gunsmith then back, you get the picture. If it's actually only $850.23c I stnd corrected. It was a generalization, give me a break. I just inquired with Hart and it's about 8-10 weeks out for a barrel. Stiller and Lawton and 20 weeks out on their actions. To me Time is Money... if you're fortunate enough to be able to do all that stuff I referenced by yourself, cool. I personally don't have machine shop equipment that can give me those kind of fits and precision features. Sorry. I can reload pretty good and I can sight in a rifle for a 1000 yd shot but when it comes to actually being a craftsman like those guys, my hats off.
Oh, that post you referenced above was pretty funny. I made an questioning observation, in error slightly but admittedly so, and the following posters were all eager to slap me down in defense of someone I already knew. LOL Oh well... ignorance is bliss.
I ended up sending Ben an envelope full of money orders totalling $1500 for his Nightforce scope, that in itself proves I'm not trolling. I have a good job although long hours and not always around a computer, and don't hug the keyboard like many of the thousand + posters do... that would explain my lack of eager repetitive participation posting everything from a two or three word sentences just to get my post count up to full blown storys.
You guys got your own little cliche here, I'll be happy to leave you alone... if you're interested in sharing and being civilized then I'll stay and listen to what you have to say... you guys make the choice, it aint no skin off my butt. I was happy before I found this board, I guess I can be just as happy without it.
I'm good either way.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:48 pm**

I apologize for the comment. But there are people who troll. You seemed to fit the bill. As you know people in this sport can be a bit harsh and come off rough. Stick around I am sure we all would appreciate your insight and opinions. Welcome to the board if you decide to stay!

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm**

cdennyb wrote:thanks for finding those posts. i AINT NO DAMN troll. I've been a member of snipers hibe since 2007. Read alot and post very little.
Couldn't help myself though when I read about not cleaning the copper out of a barrel when every mfg out there will tell you it doesnt help your shooting to leave it in there. I understand some good 10-12% ammonia solution will cut right thru the copper and of course it's a moisture trapper as well so having to follow up with some good solutions to get it out is required.
If you can shoot so great without having a consistent barrel bore, I'm impressed.
Oh, that post you referenced above was pretty funny. I made an observation, in error slightly but admittedly so, and the following posters were all eager to slap me down in defense of someone I already knew. LOL Oh well... ignorance is bliss.
I ended up sending Ben an envelope full of money orders totalling $1500 for his Nightforce scope, that in itself proves I'm not trolling. I have a good job although long hours and not always around a computer, and don't hug the keyboard like many of the thousand + posters do... that would explain my lack of eager repetitive participation posting everything from a two or three word sentences just to get my post count up to full blown storys.
You guys got your own little cliche here, I'll be happy to leave you alone... if you're interested in sharing and being civilized then I'll stay and listen to what you have to say... you guys make the choice, it aint no skin off my butt. I was happy before I found this board, I guess I can be just as happy without it.
I'm good either way.

Do what you want man... Most of us have think skin on the site and are more shooters than the typing type. I just happen to have a job I can check the forum often. As I said in my earlier post I don't think you intended to come off like a troll. Ryan, Randall, Brand and many other are some of the best shooters in the state and they all have lax cleaning regiments.

Here are some groups from a barrel with 600+ rounds down it... This is not a fluke and something this gun does often. off a bipod and rear bag.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:05 pm**

Impressive... for the time being, you all being far superior at the target punching than I am, I'll stick around and check in from time to time. If you don't hear from me, don't worry, I'm either working or sleeping... LoL

thank you for your clarifications. I'm curious what distance those two targets were from?
I'm lucky currently if I can hit the 48" square plate at a grand. I have a lot of practice yet to do. But I'm getting better.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:09 pm**

cdennyb wrote:Impressive... for the time being, you all being far superior at the target punching than I am, I'll stick around and check in from time to time. If you don't hear from me, don't worry, I'm either working or sleeping... LoL

thank you for your clarifications. I'm curious what distance those two targets were from?
I'm lucky currently if I can hit the 48" square plate at a grand. I have a lot of practice yet to do. But I'm getting better.

Thats at 100 yards... But I spend a good amount of time at 1K and do OK.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:17 pm**

This is trippy. Their avatars are so alike that at first I thought Charlie and cdennyb were one and the same.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:50 pm**

sorry about that... certainly not intential I assure you. I'll change it...

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:59 pm**

cdennyb wrote:sorry about that... certainly not intential I assure you. I'll change it...

No need man...

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:34 pm**

no, it's only right. I just had a side pic of my savage 110 BA and added some lettering that said "Say hello to my little friend" (thought it was kinda funny) so now I'm sportin a pic of my daughter shootin my swift. A founding member has status and I should've looked harder. Accept my appologies. Hope you all like the new one.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:54 pm**

cdennyb wrote:Couldn't help myself though when I read about not cleaning the copper out of a barrel when every mfg out there will tell you it doesnt help your shooting to leave it in there.

If you are using a premium grade barrel, they simply don't copper foul enough to be concerned until the accuracy drops off.
If you get better accuracy by cleaning every time, that's great.
If the accuracy does not drop off any from not cleaning though, what are you gaining by cleaning?
Every time a rod goes down the bore, that's potential barrel damage.
Every time, think about that...

I clean with bore foam and push a couple dry patches about every 500 rounds or so, or when I notice groups opening up.
This thread just reminded me that I probably should clean my barrel.
It's got 562 rounds ince I rechambered it and about 1100 since it's last real cleaning.
I got 2nd out of 30 in las vegas last weekend with it.
Only Ryan beat me and hs barrel is probably at 500+ rounds since cleaning now too.
I took Ryan's rifle to AZ on sunday and tied for 3rd place with it and there were 27 shooters there.

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:24 am**

i run a bore snake down my barrel every so often in the desert to make sure there is no sand in there.

bu i only clean after a few hundred rounds. nothing drastic just run a few patches and oil when i am done.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:27 pm**

OK, I know most of you will probably be muttering under your breath, "See, I told you so... so there." and for the most part, your thoughts are taken and accepted. For the benefit of anyone coming in "late" and reading this thread, which is a pretty good one in my opinion (big deal huh.) I contacted Darrell Buell who as some of you already know... was on our USA Savage Arms shooting team in the european championships and also many other competitions in Ireland, etc. and asked him point blank, what kind of cleaning he did to his gun during and preparing for the tourneys. This is a reprint of an e-mail I received from him for all to enjoy and confirm they are doing it right.
you can see them (him) on their web page at: http://www.usftrclass.com/bios.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From: darrell.buell@usftrclass.com
Date: 12/29/2010 3:26:02 PM
To: cdennyb@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: barrel cleaning in Europe tourney

Hey Dennis,

If it's a big multi-day (or multi-week) match, chances are with .308,
I will not clean at all. I might pull a DRY boresnake through to
remove any trash, but absolutely no wet cleaning at all. Between the
World Championships and the follow on matches in Ireland, I went
around 450 rounds without cleaning last year. I noticed no particular
accuracy problems. This is not a unique occurrence, I did exactly the
same thing when I was over in Scotland and Ireland for a full month a
few years ago.

Generally, if you do a really thorough scrubbing, your point of impact
will change, and the accuracy will be unpredictable for at least 7-10
rounds; until the barrel is "fouled in" to it's "desired" level. If
you're lucky, some matches will allow a blow-off period at the
beginning of each day to allow people that have cleaned the night
before to re-foul their barrels. Especially overseas, that
opportunity is very rare. They are more of the mindset, you should be
properly prepared when you show up for a match, and their format
rewards that. International style (or Fullbore) allows convertible
sighters, therefore if you show up with your rifle ready to shoot and
get "10's" or "X's" on your first 2 shots, you can convert them for
score!

In general, 450 rounds is probably the outside, you will typically see
when your barrel likes to be cleaned by a noticeable drop in accuracy.
Also, if you are shooting something other than .223 or .308, this
rule may DEFINITELY not apply, especially for the big "overbored"
magnums. The big magnums either like to be cleaned daily, or MUST be
cleaned daily to avoid damage issues.

Hope this helps,

Darrell Buell

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:34 pm**

khw9mm wrote:I have about 600 rounds down my factory 700 .308 barrel and never even thought about cleaning it....Am I supposed to??

Now you're learning.........

I burned my FN .308Win barrel out (3780rds - 155's@2900fps is hard on a barrel)...... During that time I cleaned it a total of three times.

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