Went out with friend to my favorite secret spot over the weekend and set up a paper target at 200 for AR's and 12" round metal target at 800 yards.

Last time out it was afternoon and the wind had kicked up already. Was having issues hitting consistently at 600 yards. This time, after having learned how to shoot properly, I missed every shot at 800. 40 rounds. Bupkes. Couple inches high, left, right, low, two feet right, 3 feet right, a foot left -- everything but on the plate. The wind was fairly calm when we started, but then really started to whip up towards the end. I was shooting 168 grain .308's. My buddy was shooting 150 grain, but when he switched to 175's, he managed to land two.

We were both rock solid with bipods and rear bags.

Does it sound like shooter error here? At the range where wind is usually light and/or consistent, I have no problem hitting 600 every time. In the open desert at the foot of the mountain, it just seems like we're shooting into a maelstrom.

Could possibly be the bullets. Those 168s don't make it out far distances. When your buddy was shooting those 175s he was making hits because those bullets have a better bc and can make it out to 800 solid.

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With a .308Win, while a 600yd shot is quite manageable, a 800yd shot, even though just 200yds farther becomes much more difficult, as you've found. Also your target size is ~1.5MOA, which at that range with a .308Win can be a challenge. The mirage, being off your DOPE by 1MOA and any misjudgment of the wind (very easy to do) will put you off the plate. In desert conditions, those 168's were probably OK to 800yds (stability wise) but not really bucking the wind very well.

You might want to put a larger plate (3MOA) out there to get on target and see what the wind is doing, then transition to the small plate.

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We use 3/8" mild steel from 700 on out. It doesn't get very beat up and its cheap. If it does get some craters you shouldn't have to worry about ricochets at those distances

AR500 on anything closer

i was using mild steel inside of 600 and recycling it when it got too boogered up. finally got some ar500 for the close stuff. i have 2- 14" X 1/2" mild steel circles that dent a little past 600.

dont feel bad william. i had the same experience this weekend. took an old friend from the east coast out to my super secret spot. checked my zero. used my dope, shooter ap, and didnt hit squat. i only had 25 rounds of 260rem for the day. one hit at 600meters. i gave up and switched to handgun for the day.

William, If you want to go shooting some time let me know. At that distance it could be you, gun, or the bullets going sub sonic.

At 800 a lot of stuff comes into play that will make you miss. Improper breathing, trigger pull, rifle can't, wind, ammo and rifle accuracy. Was it one or all them is hard to tell unless you have someone watching over your shoulder.

What size target were you shooting at 600?

If you are shooting a 1.5 MOA target at 800 you should be about to keep all your rounds on a 1" dot at 100. Can you do that if you get up between each shots?

What does you ballistic calc tell you? Are your bullets supersonic at 750, 800 and 850. You will need a slight margin of error. I would hope of at least 50 over.

Are you shooting reloads or factory ammo?

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Draining squares and banging steel

Yes desert

Hey, OK this is starting to look like more shooter error. One difference when shooting steelunlike paper you have to be within the target size form POI. On paper you can shoot a small group .1 high or .2 low and it still looks good.

.5 MOA on paper is good for a factory gun. Are you hitting the dead center of the target each time? A good way to test this is to but four 1 inch dots on a target and shoot two round per dot standing up with the rifle each time. Do the impacts move around?

A 2 MOA targe is a good size for 600 but not too hard to hit. Now a 1.5 MOA at 800 target is not easy to hit. It would seam that if you shoot .5MOA at 100 you have a 1 MOA margin of error. This is not the case. Firstly you have to factor you "zero shits" at 100 (likely caused by you) don't worry I have the issue too, of .1 to .3 mils. That could be half MOA or better of lost margin. Then a .5MOA gun is likely a 3/4 to 1MOA gun at 800. Why. MV does not really play into much at 100. You can drop powder charges with .3 spread and still shoot 1/4 MOA groups all day. Now at 800 that will cause you 3" of vertical. Breathing is also way more important at distance you can easily move 10" or more by breaking your shots at different points in you breath.

Wind at 800 is not easy with a .308 you will need to make you calls within 1MPH and be changing holds every shot.

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Team GAP, Shooter #7
Draining squares and banging steel

10 inches!

There's definitely an elimination process that I need to go through here. I went through your dot cleaning exercises (9 dots twice) and did really well on those so I thought I'd eliminated much of the shooter error already.

What I noticed at 800 is that my elevation was right on almost all the time... things were just shifting around right to left to left to right as if the wind was changing enough between every shot. I'll go verify things at 100 again and then try to shoot on a nice windless or consistent morning.

^
+1

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That's the limitation of the bullet/caliber your choosing, but all cartridges face this issue at distance some just less than others

William, Shooting a .308 running 168s at 800 is real close to shooting a .260 at 1k. Assuming you are shooting a 1.5 MOA target at both distances.

At 800 (shooting a 1.5MOA) target you will need to read the wind with a accuracy of 1MPH to make consistent hits. My .260 needs to be within 1.3 MPH to makes hits. A 30% is not that much when you figure a 1.5 MPH error both shooters will miss.

The key to shooting long range steel is learning how to hedge you bets against the wind using your holds. This could extend you your margin of error to 2MPH. So, someone that is better at this shooting a .308 would have a easier time than someone shooting a raced out .260 doing it the traditional way.

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Team GAP, Shooter #7
Draining squares and banging steel

_________________
God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

Where do I get said weasel? Does it have to be a tactical weasel or a precision weasel?

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God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

Two stray questions:

1. Say you're at a nice comfy 1000 yard range with and everyone has their rifle all locked up on a front and rear rest. You get a couple of sighter shots and then 20 more for record. Among the best shooters, what percentage of shots typically land within ten inches of the bullseye? Are there days where the best shooters will land a very low percentage? Or are they all able to read the wind well enough to stay nicely on paper? (But then again, they have flags at the F-Class matches, don't they).

2. Forgot the other one due to the precision tactical weasels.

Depends on the size of the target. Also the set up. It much easier to shoot one round in the wind for four or five contortions than make hits without flags and sighters.

Reading the wind is much harder in terrain vs a square range too. Big target frames allow you to see the wind better.

Come out and shoot with me some time and we will work on it.


Sent from my iPhone.

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Team GAP, Shooter #7
Draining squares and banging steel

_________________
God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

_________________
God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

_________________
God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

Ah, but if the wind is blowing one direction at the muzzle, it changes the departure angle of the bullet right away.
Wind 2/3 of the way to the target will then increase or decrease the drift depending on the winds direction and strength.
It's possible for a strong wind near the target to even out a really weak wind near the muzzle if there is not a defined wind midway to the target...

Wind near the muzzle sets the bullets course.
Wind at the target finalizes the bullets course...

_________________
God shoots a Remington 700, drives a Chevy Truck and carries a Glock 19.
I don't do any of those things.

_________________
Team GAP, Shooter #7
Draining squares and banging steel